Working out teacher pay.

[Mooseknuckle]

I have worked for 5 weeks at my new school prior to the summer holidays, my contract starts in September.

However, the pay roll company have split my salary by 52 to give my weekly pay and then x 4 for the first months pay.

Am I right in thinking that teacher pay is over 39 week / 195 day / 1265 directed hours?

I am over £500 a month worse off than I thought I would be.

Teachers’ holidays are unpaid. We get the 5 statutory weeks like everyone else but the remainder is unpaid. The salary just gets stretched across the 12 months.

I'm not a teacher but is that right cauliflower?

Everyone is entitled to paid holiday, isn't the holiday pay element included in the salary? The fact that the pay is divided equally over the year is a separate issue to holiday pay.

I expected to be paid salary / directed hours x no. Hours worked.

I was under the impression from research that teachers are not actually paid holiday pay, rather for 195 days or 1265 directed hours and my pay would reflect that.

I know I have made a mistake not clarifying this.

I have effectively worked 1/8 of the school year. (directed hours/ days) But will be paid closer to 1/12.

We are paid for the statutory weeks that all workers are entitled to. That’s included in the salary. The remaining weeks we are not working are unpaid.

So if you get paid in an 'unpaid' month, it relates to work you've already done surely?

Stealth teacher pay is a fudge. If you’re hired in July you can (should) get full pay for the summer.

That doesn't make sense but sounds complicated!
I suppose whar I don't understand is, if its as you describe, isn't that just being paid during the times you don't take lessons (I appreciate that doesn't mean teachers aren't working!). What do people actually mean when they say teachers aren't paid for the holidays, if it isn't that pay during the holidays is for time worked previously?

Teacher conditions don’t fit with your normal job patterns and so trying to apply the rules of normal working to teacher pay ends up with a bit of a mess.

You get 28 days paid holiday

Green, that’s a document about supply teaching.

The same document says for teachers employed under STPCD conditions, a full working year is 195 days.

Well we have 13 weeks of holidays a year. And 5 are paid. The 5 which are paid aren’t stated, they fall within the school holidays at some point. Obviously we can’t request to have a holiday when it’s term time. We work 195 days a year which we are paid for. The annual salary is divided by 12 and spread across the academic year.

5 of those days are Inset days which students do not have to attend.

When teachers strike they lose 1/365 of their salary for each day.

If I was a teacher cauliflower I wouldn't think about it that way, I would see it as a job that only needs to be done for 195 days of the year and has an annual ££ amount of salary that is paid equally. I work part time, say 150 days a year, I don't think that I'm on holiday for the days that I don't work, it just happens that the job I do doesn't take every day of the week to do.

Imo teaching is the same, it's just that the days are split slightly differently and the days you don't work come in blocks rather than evenly across the year.

You have a paid holiday entitlement just as all other employees do albeit with restrictions on when you can take that holiday but again other jobs have restrictions too.

Teachers aren't just paid for 195 days! They're paid for the whole year. They get five weeks paid holiday (obviously 'taken' during the school holidays), but they're paid to work for the other 47 weeks. I think the confusion is that only 39 weeks of that is directed time - ie time when they can be told where and what they should be doing. But the rest of the time they are still doing their job - but it's all the planning etc. Teachers' 'hours' are basically irrelevant - they're paid to do a total job, of which a certain amount is directed time in the classroom, and all the rest is up to them to schedule in evenings/weekends/school holidays as they see fit.

That's not how it works for most teachers. They are unpaid for the non term time weeks.

Sorry Stealth, I disagree. Actually, I think I'm wrong about the five weeks holiday (I'm getting confused with TAs), but I would still argue that teachers are paid all year. STPCD says that teachers need to work their 1265 hours of directed time plus whatever additional hours are reasonable to fulfill their contract. Anyone who teaches will agree that those additional hours are substantial. Perhaps they can all be done in term time if you work very long days, but most teachers will complete those hours in a combination of evenings, weekends and holidays. So I would still argue that a teacher is paid for a whole job rather than specific hours, because it is written into their T&Cs that they have to do additional hours outside their 32.5 hours x 39 weeks. I don't think STPCD has any mention of holiday, does it?

PattiStanger- but when you are working part time you only receive a percentage of your salary. I work part time 3 days so I get 0.6 of my advertised full time salary.

Teachers receive 100% of their salary because they work full time, all year round. The contracted days/hours are irrelevant to payment.

None of the teachers I know work full time all year round and wouldn't say that they do.

Maybe they aren't typical teachers, are you a teacher? Do you work full time for 47 weeks a year?

By work I mean are employed to work. Not actually sat being a computer. Which I think you understand and are just trying to be awkward now.

No, I genuinely thought you meant that teachers were working everyday, I'm not understanding you obviously.

Yes, teachers I know do work during the school holidays but not every day by any means, I'm open to the possibility that they aren't typical of the profession. A full time employee in any other job works for 47 weeks of the year, ignoring bank holidays, I seriously don't know any teachers who do that.

I'm not knocking teachers at all, they do a hard job but ime they don't work full time, that's just a fact not a slur.

But Patti (and I'm not a teacher so not being a martyr!) I would argue that teachers work way more than full time during term time. If you go on the 'only paid for their 32.5 hours a week directed time' argument, then they 'should' be working 8.45am until 3.15pm on weekdays during term time. Most teachers I know arrive at school around 7.30am and leave around 5.30pm, and usually work quite a lot in the evenings and at weekends as well. Easily a 60 hour week if not more. (Not to mention parents' evenings, school residential trips etc.) So a lot of their 'holiday' hours are being worked in term time. I agree, that few teachers work 'full time' during 47 weeks of the year - but I would argue that they easily work 'full time' over the year as a whole.

Term time is massively more than “full time” for me.

OP
What will have happened (which is common now) is the stint before the summer is one contract and arrangement and then your contract begins in September.

I've seen it happen a few times. It's not morally right, but with budgets how they are not paying essentially short term supply staff for the summer probably balances the books a bit.

Maisypops I didn't expect to get paid through the holiday. However, I did expect to be paid a fair amount for what I have done.
4 weeks is actually 1/10 of the school year (days at school in front of the children) yet I will be paid on on the ratio of 4/52.
I haven't even been paid my full 1/12 salary despite working all the possible days of that monthly pay period. Plus associated extra hours after school.
I feel ripped off.