school over funded.

[user1497480444]

Surely I can't be the only one that feels this.

I am a TA. I am paid 15k a year to support children who refuse to accept my support, don't need my support, or are too academically limited to make use of my support.

There are 25 of us in my school

nearly half a million pound s year spent on nothing.

If children were made to behave, if children were in lessons leading towards appropriate qualification for their abilities, if children were encourages to work independently etc etc they would learn far more anyway, and all that could be done WITHOUT us.

I will say again that I am sorry that your school is such a mess - but the more you write, the more obvious it is that this is a you / your school individual problem, and in no way systemic.

thank you, yes, I do know its not all of them, as it happens, my last school was very good, however the one before was exactly like this, and so are many many more I know of, through first hand experience, or through friends and relatives who are teachers.

I think the OP is saying money is being wasted because pupils are forced to be 'academic' when they don't know the bare minimum - square pegs for round holes.

(I do know the head of a school with a very, very high proportion of disengaged, low ability pupils, including many extremely deprived, many from families from generations of unemployment, and many excluded from other schools. The total provision was worked around that - including a Y7 that was primary-like, extraordinary support staff, police and social services staff based on site etc etc.)

This sounds like a good school. and I'm sure it can be done. Why can't all schools be made to be more like this!

I think the OP is saying money is being wasted because pupils are forced to be 'academic' when they don't know the bare minimum - square pegs for round holes.

That is definitely part of it.

Bullshit are you an 'education professional'.

These kids need you to adapt your approach, as others have already said. Repeatedly.

They stare at their phones all day? Use their phones to teach them. Use calendars, apps etc to engage them. The kid who sleeps all the time? Meet his basic needs, talk to him, engage with him, show him that he can have goals (sounds like he doesn't get that from home).

You have no hope or optimism for these kids who have no hope or optimism for themselves. Your job is to be that person who believes in their potential and supports them intensively to achieve that. It's heartbreaking that they are being let down by you.

It sounds like your school needs more funding for specialist interventions and they should be working more with social services. It is now clear why they need such a big inclusion team. This would be easier to deal with if referrals to EdPsych, SS, counselling, life space, big brother mentors was better funded and freely available. Your school is letting these kids down if they aren't employing people who have the right training to approach them. It also sounds like their behaviour expectations are all wrong.
None of this would be helped by less funding. It would be helped by an over haul of management and employing specialist TAs. My school has done some amazing stuff with inclusion but it take the right approach and lots of outside agency help.

The reason your getting a tough time is you insist on stating that paying for your role is a waste of money. It's not. But your school have done you no favour employing you for a role that you weren't equipped for.

They stare at their phones all day? Use their phones to teach them. Use calendars, apps etc to engage them.

we have that, they are not interested, just in their own video games and messages etc.

The kid who sleeps all the time? Meet his basic needs, talk to him, engage with him,

yep, do all that

show him that he can have goals (sounds like he doesn't get that from home)

nope, he is not interested in that!

any other suggestions?

The OP apparently is in London where there are many examples of excellent state schools in challenging circumstances. It's odd that she can't come up with any way of sorting these kids out when surrounded by lots of schools doing exactly that.

Your job is to be that person who believes in their potential and supports them intensively to achieve that

you cannot support someone intensively if they just say "fuck off" and move away from you every single time you approach them. And blaming staff who are getting sworn at and abused constantly is very silly.

Unfortunately I've also seen and experienced children that are so disillusioned with the education system as those you've described.

I personally found being straight and delivering home truths has worked for some.
Before even looking at the work set establish a repor and find out what interests them and what their strengths are.

For example one child this has worked for; 14yr old lad suspended 4 times for violence in bottom set for everything with ADHD.
He wasn't stupid but had assumed he was. He actually couldn't see a point because he was bad, his words.
We concentrated on his eventual employment being within a trade, he liked being hands on and didn't enjoy the confinement of a classroom. However with a focus (which was v difficult given the lack of support he received at home) he managed to work on more functional skills knowing they would lead to an end game he wanted.

As a teacher I have found these kids the biggest challenge but also the most rewarding when you get through.

It's heartbreaking that they are being let down by you.

you don't get it, do you. I am not letting anybody down. The system is, or the school is. There is nothing I can do about it

Before even looking at the work set establish a repor and find out what interests them and what their strengths are.

its nice when that is possible, but it rarely isyou cannot establish a rapport with students who simply say "fuck off" and move away every single time an adult approaches them, day after day, year after year.

There are tens of thousands of kids like this I don't think OP is to blame for them all! Some of the things being said here are very unfair.

She is expected to sort it all out on her TA grade

I do think a big problem is that schools are more motivated by ticking boxes and looking good rather than providing a good education.

The problem we have is that too many schools are being forced to take children whose needs would be better met in a non mainstream setting.

I have personal interest in this as my autistic son was pushed towards mainstream at secondary level and it was totally unsuitable for him. He just didn't cope with it at all....despite excellent support from the LSAs who worked with him in lessons. As his Mum it was a hard thing to see my child struggle so much.

By the end of Y7 I had pulled him out and went to war to the local authority. For the last two years he has been in a special school and it's the best decision I ever made.

Special schools don't have to be places where children are left to be i academic. Our school works closely with a nearby mainstream school and children who are able enough can take GCSEs there.

We need many more schools which cater for children who are not coping in a mainstream environment.

I get totally what the OP is saying,

Your school is letting these kids down if they aren't employing people who have the right training to approach them. It also sounds like their behaviour expectations are all wrong.

i don't know what they need, but they need something, we have all thee interventions in spades, but you are right, the behaviour expectations are totally wrong.

I think they need discipline and structure and real consequences, they don't get any of that.

It would be helped by an over haul of management and employing specialist TAs.

I m a specialist TA, but can't do anything without management back up

I do think a big problem is that schools are more motivated by ticking boxes and looking good rather than providing a good education.

completely true!

The problem we have is that too many schools are being forced to take children whose needs would be better met in a non mainstream setting.

Absolutely! I've worked in some very good special schools, but now, in this school have children at approximately p5 doing English GCSE!!

As you'll note I put works for some.

In my opinion it's worth a try but would also mean putting an awful lot of work in above your pay grade, or anyone else's for that matter.

Ultimately these kids will have been let down before even entering education. Sad but true.

or are too academically limited to make use of my support.

 

Heavens above! No child ever is too academically limited to make use of TA support. They may not pass GCSE maths/English in Y11, but surely they can learn something! 

@ChipInTheSugar I, unfortunately, have experienced grater ignorance I. The classroom from teachers. As I work in Reception it hasn't been a big deal, but I still laugh about the teacher who asked me to show the class where the North Pole was on a globe because she had no idea. I'm also surprised that I'm the only TA in the school I work on who has English and Maths GCSE.

How many different apps have you tried? Have you looked at their learning styles? Have you tried to understand what the barriers are to them learning? Have your tried to understand what they need?

Of course you can support people who tell you to fuck off. I worked with offenders for years and got this sort of thing all the time, and they all without fail needed someone to engage with them in a way which worked for them. One thing that they had in common is that they have been badly let down in childhood by people who should have supported them better.

The thing which is so awful about your post is how you are completely judging and writing these kids off rather than trying to understand. If you try to understand rather than getting angry and judging them, you will find that things start to improve.

Perhaps read about schema - you might find you understand what people need.

You have clearly started the thread for a bunfight, asking for suggestions, telling people you have tried absolutely everything, insisting that they make suggestions anyway.

I'm also surprised that I'm the only TA in the school I work on who has English and Maths GCSE.

That's highly unusual. It's pretty much always a requirement on job adverts.

Ok, if you are a specialist and your job is a 'waste of money' then what do you want to change? Should the school scrap all inclusion and TA roles? What happens to these kids then?

In my experience, there is a very specific type of person who can deal successfully with students like this. It takes a lot of training and experience working with students from challenging and disadvantaged backgrounds. It sounds like your school have gotten it wrong on several levels. However, that does not mean that all schools are. My last three schools have had a high proportion of disadvantaged students and all three had geared the entire school structure to supporting them to achieve. But it takes a lot of funding- learning mentors TAs, outside mentoring, working with the PRUs, mentoring spaces, outward bound trips, parental engagement sessions etc.

One of the things that really worked with disengaged girls at my last school was to do activities aimed at considering their parents' lives and how happy they were (or weren't) and then discussing their own outcomes. That school paid a lot in careers advice, trips and experiences for those girls. It really worked to motivate them.

Heavens above! No child ever is too academically limited to make use of TA support. They may not pass GCSE maths/English in Y11, but surely they can learn something

This, in spades.

I get that 'management' don't help, really I do, but be subversive, challenge and raise concerns. I agree that the current systems is shit for some kids, but don't write the kids off because they don't 'fit' with what the current overgrown public schoolboy thinks education should look like.

Odd that Ofsted haven't stepped in.