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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

school over funded.

259 replies

user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 10:05

Surely I can't be the only one that feels this.

I am a TA. I am paid 15k a year to support children who refuse to accept my support, don't need my support, or are too academically limited to make use of my support.

There are 25 of us in my school

nearly half a million pound s year spent on nothing.

If children were made to behave, if children were in lessons leading towards appropriate qualification for their abilities, if children were encourages to work independently etc etc they would learn far more anyway, and all that could be done WITHOUT us.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 17:38

Students will an IEP (or whatever it is called now) have a legal right to a certain amount of TA support, exactly - we may be there because there is a legal requirent for us to be there, that does NOT mean that there is anything at all for us to do, students may refuse support, may take support they don't need, or may be too weak to be able to use the support in the lesson they are in - more than 90% of students on my timetable will fall into one of those three categories.

The issue is behaviour and management. I will get silenced for saying so, but that is the truth.

An inclusion team is always a good idea, as is a behaviour management team. There is now (no)such thing as a school full of kids without behaviour issues

see, you are just accepting that money should be spent on children's bad behaviour. Why do you accept that? How much money exactly? our inclusion team is 6-8 full time individuals full time rounding up truants. say they are on 20k each ( I don't know) that is another say £140k just on that. Why is that acceptable? As to behviour management - I have no idea who in the school is paid for that, but at least one deputy head, so £45k?

can't you see what I am saying - we are up to about £700 000 per year in just one school, because of children who have no incentive at all to behave in a reasonable way, or because schools are prioritising league tables and ofsted tick lists over education.

Why is it wrong of me to say so?

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 17:40

who can't come up with any strategies for engaging with students who have disengaged?!!

nothing is going to work if the school system won't let it! I am still waiting to hear any suggestions other posters have.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 17:41

Your a crap TA if you can't engage the pupils in their learning.

come on then - I am waiting for your suggestions!

Just another poster who demands the impossible and blames staff if it doesn't happen.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 17:43

Thank you gaggleofgirls. I know I am not the only one who has seen it

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PurpleDaisies · 25/06/2017 17:43

come on then - I am waiting for your suggestions!
Why so aggressive?

It's amazing that an "education professional" of 25 years experience has no idea how to engage with students who don't want to learn. It's a fundamental skill that TAs (and teachers) have to have, especially working one to one.

user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 17:46

It's amazing that an "education professional" of 25 years experience has no idea how to engage with students who don't want to learn

i have many ideas, none of which work in the school I am describing to you, so I would like to hear what YOU think would work.

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NannyOggsKnickers · 25/06/2017 18:03

It sounds like you are burnt out user. You seem to have gotten to the point where nothing works and you can't be bothered anymore. Perhaps a change of school will do you good.

But it does concern me that you can't think of ways to engage students and you think that working with students with additional needs is a waste of time. That is an appalling attitude for a TA. So it is probably best if you don't continue with the work.

But just because you tried and failed doesn't mean that others do to. There are loads of great TAs and inclusion managers out there who make a difference every day to students who have additional needs or come from very difficult backgrounds. You seem to lack empathy for these students. It isn't a waste of time to help and support them. It is such a shame that you can't see that.

PurpleDaisies · 25/06/2017 18:06

i have many ideas, none of which work in the school I am describing to you, so I would like to hear what YOU think would work.

From the tone of your posts I just don't think you are interested in listening. You're looking for a fight and to shoot down anything anyone suggests.

I totally agree with nanny's post above. You sound burnt out and bitter.

user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:10

no suggestions then!!

its very easy to critisise and blame, but if someone simply says "fuck off" and moves away from you every time you approach them, and has does automatically to every member of support staff at the school, and hs done constantly for three years....

come on... I'm waiting! what do you suggest?

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cantkeepawayforever · 25/06/2017 18:11

What have you tried so far? There is no point in us suggesting things that have already been tried.

PurpleDaisies · 25/06/2017 18:12

All I can say is if this thread reflects how you approach your students it's no wonder why they won't engage with you.

user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:14

This is normal by the way, not an exceptional student, or a one off, but the go to response of a large cohort of students,

obviously there should be a behaviour policy in place, and this should be referred up, but there isn't and it won't.

Some members of staff teaching might well try to support TAs, but if that is the only response they get as well.....

Obviously the parents should take an interest if this is reported to them, but they won't.

So what do you suggest I do exactly?

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NotMyPenguin · 25/06/2017 18:15

That would be "It's very easy to criticise", right? God help your students, if indeed you do have anything to do with education, which I continue to doubt.

Any teaching strategy designed to engage a student should centre on the individual reasons for their disengagement, so blanket suggestions would be unhelpful here. I just seem to be in good company finding it strange that this basic responsibility is something you struggle with...

user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:16

There is no point in us suggesting things that have already been tried.

I can guarantee you won't be able to suggest anything that hasn't been tried.

the fact is that they prefer to play on their phones rather than learn.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:23

Any teaching strategy designed to engage a student should centre on the individual reasons for their disengagement,

like I said, prefer to play on their phones, is the biggest one.

Not all, some have terrible experiences, and my heart goes out to them, but there is nothing I can do if the school doesn't back me up in the central reason for our existence, to educate.

I have students who have been excused from writing for 5 solid years, even though they can do it, they don't like to, so they don't havr to - whats that all about. So I scribe for them, which should mean I write down what they say, but all it actually means is they tell me to write down whats on the board and shut up, I'm interrupting their gaming. One has actually brought his play station in and set it up in lessons, I am not kidding.

So I talk to them, and write out their notes, and we get on fine, but they won't engage with the work, or take their notes, and just throw them on the floor at the end of every lesson.

One lad is homeless, and just puts his head down and sleeps every lesson, and again I talk to him, and we are on good terms, but he sees no point in work at all, and can't be bothered, and I can't keep him in or anything like that, or offer any other incentive, he is years behind now, anyway. He rarely knows where he will be sleeping from night to night, just meets his mum and follows her after school. Miserable existence. He needs proper structure and help, he isn't getting it. He has no SEN. There is nothing for him at school. He truants a lot, and gets swept up by the inclusion team and parked in the inclusion room to go to sleep.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:25

The homeless boy isn't on my timetable, by the way, I just speak to him and try to encourage him sometimes in class. The play station player and his cohort are on my timetable, and just tell me they have to attend to keep their parents out of court but do everything in their power, all day every day to get excluded, which the school will not do.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:27

We are given large lists of children to read with, but they all know they don't have to. They just truant, or go and tell the head of English they don't want to read, and so the response is, ok, you don't have to, so they are back in the class playing on their phones all day instead.

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:28

No body is coming up with any suggestions for these children then???

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user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:31

There aren't any, that why, it has to come from the school, and it doesn't.

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Somerville · 25/06/2017 18:33

Everything you are saying is evidence that you school needs better funding. Not worse.

Achoopichu · 25/06/2017 18:37

I'm really surprised that OP is getting such a hard time. I know that schools and pupils like this exist and how difficult it is to teach in them. Pupils arrive at school not knowing how to behave, and with parents for role models who don't know how to behave, and are uneducated to the point where they can barely speak/read/write English (I'm not talking about immigrants). This might be due to drink/drugs or generations on benefits. There is no work ethic or desire to learn, in fact purely the opposite. What chance do the kids have? But OP is forced to teach/support the curriculum even tho it's a waste of time. I don't know the answer but it must be really frustrating on the front line.

Lots of people live very sheltered middle class lives and don't see this in society, but ask anyone working in NHS/police/fire and some schools and they know it's a huge part of our society. Failing schools are full of kids like this - unteachable.

And it's not just kids with poor parents. I know of a really bright 13 yo who was struggling - he went to a tutor who realised he didn't know the alphabet. But got to keep on with the curriculum.

cantkeepawayforever · 25/06/2017 18:37

I will say again that I am sorry that your school is such a mess - but the more you write, the more obvious it is that this is a you / your school individual problem, and in no way systemic.

noblegiraffe · 25/06/2017 18:38

I know that schools and pupils like this exist and how difficult it is to teach in them.

Would you start a thread banging on about how over-funded these schools are?

No?

That's why the OP is getting a hard time.

user1497480444 · 25/06/2017 18:40

i am saying the school is over funded, because when i look at the amount the head teacher says we are underfunded by, I can easily find well over double that money wasted constantly

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cantkeepawayforever · 25/06/2017 18:40

(I do know the head of a school with a very, very high proportion of disengaged, low ability pupils, including many extremely deprived, many from families from generations of unemployment, and many excluded from other schools. The total provision was worked around that - including a Y7 that was primary-like, extraordinary support staff, police and social services staff based on site etc etc.)