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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Original poster

If I'm part time can thery make come in to a proportion of staff meetings on my day off?

40 replies

reup · 23/06/2015 07:38

It's going to cost me hundreds in childcare costs and am not paid extra.. I have to come in for a proportion of inset too but ast least there only 2 of those.

OP posts:
meandjulio · 23/06/2015 07:42

Don't know but bumping for you. It certainly sounds wrong.

If they do insist on this and you decide not to sue them, could you attend via Facetime?

mrsnewfie · 23/06/2015 08:22

If it's not an academy/follow the burgundy book, no. There's a clause that says part time staff are not required to go into school on days off.

If you work in an academy, who knows! They make up their own rules!!

Maybe seek help from your union?

bronya · 23/06/2015 08:25

No. Contact your union. They will sort it for you.

Original poster
reup · 23/06/2015 11:23

Thanks. It's just an LA school. I might try and get my working day changed to the meeting day. And it's prompted me to join a union as I kept forgetting.

OP posts:
DriftingOff · 23/06/2015 13:04

Definitely don't go to those meetings, especially as it's an LA school. I don't know why school management keep trying it on with this one - it's clearly stated in the Burgundy book that you can't be expected to be in school on your days off (and that includes parents' evenings). Part-timers generally work well in excess of their hours anyway, so don't feel pressured to do any more - it will only set a precedent in your school, making it even harder for the next part-timer to say 'no'.

noblegiraffe · 23/06/2015 13:23

Say no and keep saying no. They can't force you to come in on a day you don't work as you could have another job somewhere else.

When you're part time you have to be firm about stuff like this because they will take the piss if they can.

rollonthesummer · 23/06/2015 14:46

No, no, no.

The union had to get involved at my school about this. The head wanted all part time staff to come in to every INSET day and a proportion of staff meetings, whether they were on your day or not. He expected this unpaid!

The union lady said that people commonly believed that as there are 5 INSET days-you should have to go to eg 2/5 if you work 2 days a week, or 3/5 if you work 3 days a week, but even this was wrong. You should work any INSET days if they are on the day you normally work-you are under no obligation to attend any others-unless you wish to and then you should be paid. Good heads make one inset on each of the 5 days of the week-so all part time staff would attend the the number appropriate to the days they worked, but this is not statutory.

If you are in an academy on the other hand-you might have to attend every INSET and staff meeting on any day of the week when you agreed to sell the soul of your firstborn to the sponsor in the small print-you'd have to check ;)

Original poster
reup · 23/06/2015 17:21

Thanks for that. I would need to get paid for insets as I'll be shelling out for a while days childcare.

OP posts:
TealFanClub · 23/06/2015 17:23

I go in for most of them only because normally they are useful, they are normally pretty easy days and also I often want other days off to do some voluntary work so think it shows good will. It depends how much you want to piss people off in the end really and how much you have to pay for nursery something

Original poster
reup · 23/06/2015 17:44

It's not the easy nature I care about. It would mean I couldn't take another job and I would never be allowed days off my working schedule to volunteer.

No wonder workers rights are getting more and more eroded if you get accused of pissing people off for just wanting to work in the days you are paid. I already work at least 9/10 hour days plus several hours planning on my days off. I don't want to have to pay nearly £300 when I not earning anything.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 23/06/2015 17:57

I work all five days even though I'm 0.6 so I attend 3 out of 5 INSETs. If a staff meeting is on an afternoon I don't work, then I don't go.

What I have found is that if I don't attend staff meetings, no one ever tells me what happened in them, no minutes or slides or anything so I am constantly kept out of the loop. It's bloody annoying.

BackforGood · 23/06/2015 18:43

Not sure how you get to "hundreds" of ££, but that aside - no, there is no expectation to come in on your NWD.
Once my dc were at school, and might be at (their) school on an INSET day, then I would look at what they were doing, and if I felt it would be useful, see if they wanted to either pay me (like supply cover) or give me a day off - to suit me - 'in lieu'. but that was easier for me as not class based so didn't need cover if I took a working day off.
Sometimes - say they are doing whole school safeguarding training or something - then it does make sense to come in, but a lot of what happens on INSET days is perfectly miss-able.

mrsnewfie · 23/06/2015 22:04

Don't go in! If you do, you are setting a precedent that all part timers should give up their own time! Give them an inch and they take a yard and all that...

Never mind about 'pissing people off'. Why should you have to pay out for child care when you are not getting paid yourself?

Brandysnapper · 23/06/2015 22:12

Perhaps insets should be held on Sarurdays instead, since no-one minds paying for extra childcare? (That's even assuming there is extra childcare available to use). I wouldn't mind the odd video conference actually, wonder why so little use is made of such technology. In Scotland the rule regarding in-set is difference but the rules about meetings etc are the same. Also check you are getting the right proportion of bank holidays.

Brandysnapper · 23/06/2015 22:15

Why not sure why it would be "hundreds", BFG - I can think of ten meetings I miss in a year, each requiring an afternoon's childcare (x by 2 at £5 an hour) would be around £500 for me.

BackforGood · 23/06/2015 23:45

Sorry BrandySnapper - I read the OP quickly and thought she was talking about an INET day - hadn't 'clicked' she was talking about regular staff meetings too. Apologies, yes, that would start to add up.

With staff meetings, I agree with noblegiraffe that if you aren't there, you easily end up out of the loop. I always made sure one of my working days was a staff meeting day, for my own benefit, but no, I certainly wouldn't come in at the end of the day for a meeting, when I wasn't working that day. Of course, you can only do that if you are a 'stand alone part timer' - it doesn't work if you are a job share as obviously it will always be one of the pair who is on their day off, unless, that is, the management are willing to rotate the day they hold the staff meeting so everyone gets a turn to miss and a turn to attend.

MidniteScribbler · 24/06/2015 04:22

setting a precedent that all part timers should give up their own time

Because full timers never give up any of their own time to work out of hours of course.

ThisFenceIsComfy · 24/06/2015 05:47

You do not have to work for free. Either they pay you or you don't go in. I'm afraid it's as simple as that. If it is a regular requirement, then that would be a contractual change of hours and something that you would need to have a meeting about.

Stealthpolarbear · 24/06/2015 05:58

I'm on the fence on this one (not a teacher). I do work in my own time, sometimes I even pay for childcare for that. But if I was expected to...

noblegiraffe · 24/06/2015 07:09

Teachers do a billion hours of work in their own time. But spending your evenings marking and your weekends planning is different to having to get your work gear on, arrange childcare, drop your kid off, attend a one hour meeting which is often drivel, pick your kid up, drive home and get out of your work gear unpaid on your day off. That's unacceptable.

sanfairyanne · 24/06/2015 07:31

if full timers have regular meetings at the weekend, it is a comparable situation. bet they don't though.

mrsnewfie · 24/06/2015 07:40

You are stating the obvious Midnight!

However, we are talking about a part timer being asked to return to her school, on days that she is not contracted to do at her expense. Full timers tend to be in school when meetings happen and don't have to make a special journey! Jeez!!!

Yahooatemyaccount · 24/06/2015 10:05

Information, please! How about TAs? I'm about to start a new part time TA job in September, I get paid hourly and I've been told I'm "expected" to come in on training days! I was a full time teacher who got into school at sparrow fart every morning, did hours of work every evening and planned for most of Sunday for a loooong time before I had my kids (have had a break as a SAHM) so know all about expectations and also the piss-taking element in schools :) My children have an INSET day at the same time as my new school, don't think I get paid on INSET days, would only be paid 3 hours anyway and two children's worth of childcare for a whole day would soon gobble that up! Must admit I'm woefully out of touch with what expectations of TAs are now re meetings and training days, they used to only get asked to attend their own meetings/ training sessions or named child SEN meetings last time I was a teacher. It seems to vary from school to school with meeting/ training attendance expectations. I want to do a good job, I'm willing to work out of hours to support my role in the school and support the school, but at the same time don't want the piss taken or to have to be the one who always says "no". What would be a reasonable expectation of a TA who works 15 hours per week?

DriftingOff · 24/06/2015 10:44

What would be a reasonable expectation of a TA who works 15 hours per week?

15 hours!! No more, no less. You can't be earning much above minimum wage as a TA anyway. If you do unpaid hours, it could end up taking it below minimum wage. Good schools/managers would never expect a TA to work any hours over their exact hours that they're paid. If you WANT to do extra voluntary work then fine, but if you feel you are being pressured into it and you don't want to do it, then you need to say "no", and probably look for other jobs in the meantime. If you suffer any discrimination by refusing to work hours that you aren't paid for then take it up with your union. Being forced to work unpaid hours is slavery, and was outlawed about 200 years ago. Why allow yourself to be treated like a slave?

Yahooatemyaccount · 24/06/2015 11:03

Thank you, that's pretty much my take on it, Drifting! But not great to start a new job and the first thing they ask for you say "No"! They shouldn't put you in that position in the first place!

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