Bbc article about unqualified teachers

[rollonthesummer]

The tories are defending it by saying there were more unqualified teachers under labour anyway...?!

A Tory spokesperson says...

"There are some brilliant teachers who have not got qualified teacher status - nuns, great linguists, computer scientists, engineers and other specialists that inspire their pupils.

Nuns?!

I don't know of any unqualified people in schools near me that sound like that list. The ones I know are very young-no time to have been a nun, great linguist or successful in business- and have not yet passed NQT for various 'unknown' reasons.

'Qualified' teachers who have never been outside education seem to assume that their way is the only way. I am a qualified teacher, but I would love to see more people teaching who have come from other professions , and who have not spent their whole lives in the public sector.
My view would be outstanding schools training teachers, with staff who are off timetable enough to properly mentor trainees and have time to look at and reflect on research, but still with enough teaching time so they stay real...

Well, I can only agree with you there Evil. That's a really sad story. Had he been a native speaker teaching KS3 I could see an argument for it: if he was lively and inspirational and got them into the target language. But not what you describe. :( I would be angry too.

I suppose what I'd ask is that you don't tar us all with the same brush? It can work very well with specialist subjects, especially the arts where in a way the whole point is to be different from the regulated nature of the other topics. I have a track record instead of a paper qualification, but it's a track record that is studied by teachers from other schools who come to visit to watch..... I fail all the time and have horrible weaknesses but I diagnose and learn from them all the time because I'm in my forties and know how to lead my own development IYSWIM.

Evil - it's one of the non-Ebaac subjects (of course!)

legal what term would you prefer to describe someone who is teaching alongside qualified teachers but has not qualified as a teacher?

" I would love to see more people teaching who have come from other professions , and who have not spent their whole lives in the public sector."

I'm not sure (even though I'm one of those people). My other profession does give me confidence to identify fads and things that aren't really things IYSWIM. I simply laugh at them, and then when I look them up I find leading education academics are laughing at them too. So in a way you have more intellectual independence.

But there are lots of people from private sector who don't get the big picture in a school. Whereas I genuinely admire the skillset of basically all the teachers in my school and I think I can "see" the core skills that really matter.

In our school there is a sort of clultural unity between the staff about what inclusion is, how to handle situations with kids sensitively, what vocab to use or not to use. So it's very easy to pick things up from them just by being around them and observing them. There is excellent retention - no-one leaves!

There is a difference between schools employing unqualified teachers on the basis that the said individual is skilled in a specialist subject which none of the teachers are, and it being policy to allow teachers to be unqualified. If teachers are no longer required to be qualified then it will be only a matter of time before no teachers are actually qualified and we just let teaching become a free for all. Of course there will be poor teachers among those who have a qualification, but having to gain this qualification will weed out many many more than it allows through.

Arcangela - you have already made that argument and I think it's crap. Working in a different job does not make anyone a better/worse teacher. Where would you draw the line? A couple of years as a barista in Starbucks, or does it need to be something more high powered? You are a qualified teacher, but say upthread that your PGCE was done at a rubbish university and you are a supply teacher. Does that mean that you are automatically a better teacher than someone who did their PGCE at Oxford at the age of 22, simply because you had a career elsewhere first? I genuinely don't think that's how it works.

I did my PGCE at 22 and taught for 4 years before doing something else for a year and then returning to teaching. Was I automatically better after the year of doing something else?

The sad fact is, the best teachers are often those with a few years of experience behind them. New teachers, whether 22 or 45 years old, are leaving the profession in droves after less than 4 years. We need to address rentention as much as ITT.

Legal - that doesn't surprise me. I teach Peforming Arts and the number of Drama PGCE courses has declined rapidly in recent years.

Noble - I don't know!

I'm a teacher - but not a class teacher.

I sort of feel that in primary, "Class Teacher" should be the positive "par excellence" description of the most senior professionals in the system. Rather than having a negative derogative description for someone who might be a superb PE teacher.

One thing that makes me very sad is seeing the school system borrowing language from business that isn't really appropriate. Such as "Senior Leadership Team" and "Senior Management". For me, it's a sign of the profession's lack of confidence. It sends all the wrong signals to teachers - as if becoming a manager instead of a teacher was what they should aim for.

I am so glad that our head teacher is still called "Head Teacher" and dread the day that changes (if it does).

Another thing that makes me sad is hearing about "SLT" who don't teach. Why are they still there then? It's like a copying of what people think business is like......

legal when people talk about unqualified teachers in schools they are usually referring to people who are doing the job of a full-time teacher (which you are not), without QTS. They are not usually referring to peripatetic teachers who turn up and do their specialism in primary, but nothing else.

I've had the term thrown at me quite a lot noble....

But I take your point - I'm being guilty of the "it must be about me" effect!

I agree with Evil that having done another job per se does not give you any greater insight. Life experience - especially having overcome obstacles - is more likely to be useful at giving you perspective.

Evil - I'm primary and would gladly take a primary mini-PGCE for my subject if it existed but it doesn't. And it would be unreasonable for me to do primary PGCE or secondary subject PGCE because then I couldn't work.

My own Dc are at an independent school, and there are many good 'unqualified ' teachers, so I don't think the 'qualification' has any validity. Great teachers 'qualified' or not are rewarded and stay and inept or teachers are not hired, and/p would definitely not be kept on if they were hired. No reason why the state sector can't do the same.

Personally, I find that the ten years I've spent teaching have made me a far better teacher than the four years I spent in industry.

I was also a far better teacher at the end of my PGCE than at the beginning, so it must have been good for something.

Talking of unqualified teachers, I know of a teacher who was going to fail their NQT year, so the school simply kept them on as an unqualified teacher, because that would be better than no teacher. A lot of schools are desperately short of teachers and unqualified doesn't mean bringing in someone fab who happens not to have QTS, but means bringing in someone, anyone with a pulse.

Talking of unqualified teachers, I know of a teacher who was going to fail their NQT year, so the school simply kept them on as an unqualified teacher, because that would be better than no teacher.
:( :( :(

Re the private schools: I suppose if I went to a private primary and taught maths to a class of 5 kids for a year that would train me up.... so I suppose they can learn on the job if they have small class sizes.

Arcangela I would be interested to know how some of your DC's teachers would fare in a tricky state school. Independent school teaching comes without an awful lot of the difficulties of the state sector, as I'm sure you know.

We have a failing NQT in our maths dept. She would probably be fine in a small girls' independent school. She does not cope well with the range of abilities in her KS3 classes, even though they are set. Her classroom management isn't great either. Most importantly though, she's not that interested in improving. I guess her years in industry didn't prepare her for a bog standard comp.

Doesn't really matter how they would fare elsewhere - they do a great job where they are - we are lucky to have them.

But you are holding them up as an example of why unqualified teachers do OK. My point is that they might be fine in a naice independent school, but that is not a good reason why the government should allow academies, free schools and other state schools to employ them.

Evil,

There are actually several members of staff more than capable of delivering my subject. A couple of years ago we took it out of the PPE slot and had a classroom teacher with the relevant degree teach it. As I understand it, it didn't work because the slot it went into was the "cancel-me"/"school trip" afternoon slot - so there was even less continuity than having it in PPA.

In contrast, PPA cover never ever gets cancelled and we are on a rota with PE which has protected time! So from the point of view of secondary teachers like you, there are more likely to be GCSE students coming up if it stays in PPA cover at primary (at least in our school).

All very ironic....

Evil - there are many, many qualified teachers who don't, or wouldn't, cope well in a tricky state secondary school. What's the difference between them and the unqualified ones?

I am a fully qualified teacher with a degree from a top university, a PGCE from another top university and nearly twenty years' teaching experience. I have taught recently in tricky state schools and the one year of teacher training I did (nearly twenty years ago!) did absolutely nothing to help me with the appalling behaviour and other demands of the job, funnily enough.

I still don't think that's a reason to think having unqualified teachers is a good idea!

It's a good idea to not use teacher qualifications as a recruitment filter if those qualifications are unreliable.

I hate to say that the shitloads of paperwork/deadlines I used to deal with in my previous career has been useful experience for teaching. Who'd have guessed?

Bonsoir- indeed. Far more diverse pool of applicants without - otherwise schools are run mostly by people who have never worked outside education or the public sector - hardly a balanced demography. I am delighted that my own DC are educated by a wider range of people with a wider experience. And would love this to be the case for DC in state schools as well. But the PCGE is a filtering mechanism that until recently precluded people who did not want to pay large amounts of money to be patronised by mediocre staff who have never worked outside 'academia'.

Teaching was my second career, I was shockingly bad when I started my training and acceptable when I finished. The PGCE need not be the only route into teaching but there needs to be some kind of accredited training. The fact that training teachers has become controversial speaks volumes about how the profession has been undermined.

My previous job was only really helpful in terms of enabling me to see that the grass was not greener. I worked with many teachers who had taught all their lives and were much better teachers than me.

By all means improve the training, by all means raise the entry requirements ( although will we get the applicants) but don't scrap the training.

I don't think there is any movement to scrap TT.

Bonsoir to quickly answer your question, I think you're either a natural teacher or you're not

I don't think that this is true. I was never a natural teacher and was never a super teacher. However some of the best results in my school, outstanding observations and other achievements suggest that it is certainly something that can be learned.