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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Supply pay - umbrella company?

57 replies

PrincessSlayer · 08/03/2015 14:25

Hoping there are some more experienced supply teachers out there...

I have signed up to an agency and they have said I need to sign with an umbrella company so that I can be paid through them.
Problem is, there seem to be an endless number of umbrella companies and I don't know which one to choose!

The agency have one they recommend but I don't know if that is just because they get benefits from this particular one. It's called ePayMe and I'm in London if that makes any difference.

Anyone got any advice/warnings before I just sign up to that one? I am terrified of choosing wrongly and getting screwed over...

OP posts:
RinkyDinkyDoo · 10/03/2015 20:06

Ok,will phone them Thursday morning. Thanks.

DontGotoRoehampton · 10/03/2015 21:55

Yes, you can switch, and you can, and should insist. By law they have to offer PAYE, but if they can get away with it they won't - as they get a kickback from the UC.

EdithSitwell · 10/03/2015 23:25

OK, so I earn £90 per day. If I were to change to PAYE, how much do you think would be in my bank account for a day's work. I've been doing supply since Christmas and my pay does seem low for the amount of work I do. And if I work close to home it seems particularly low because it's not including travelling expenses. Thanks everyone.

EdithSitwell · 10/03/2015 23:42

Just looked at a payslip. Three and a half days work. £249 in my bank account. £60 of that is reimbursed expenses as I was working quite a long way from my home. Deductions include Employer's Margin - £21 - and holiday pay and NI.

DontGotoRoehampton · 11/03/2015 06:49

Edith - are the expenses paid to you on top of your day rate - that is unusual a supply teacher!
What does it show as your gross pay?
A payslip should how the gross - eg 3 days at 90 = 270 and then show the various deductions to bring it down to net pay.
If they are counting the mileage costs as a deduction before they calculate the tax then they are scamming you and HMRC - artificially reducing the tax and NI and outing you in a risky situation - effectively tax evasion.
If they paying you costs as a separate item - ie your gross pay is 270 + petrol/mileage costs = eg gross of £300, then that's ok - they are paying you extra over and above your daily rate and then taxing the whole lot.
(In organisations where they pay mileage etc cost they can pay them a separate non-taxed figure if they conform to certain rules - I was paid this way when I worked for many years in business. The company has to prove when audited that the expenses conform to HMRC rules)
Bottom line is - no way should they be using mileage as a deduction to gross pay, or showing your daily rate as eg 90-10=80 to artificially reduce the tax liability.

DontGotoRoehampton · 11/03/2015 06:51

The mileage rules are complicated by the way as you cannot claim for your regular workplace, so then you get into a debate with HMRC about how often you visit a particular workplace....

DontGotoRoehampton · 11/03/2015 06:54

If you are paid PAYE they you take home pay will probably go down as you are paying the correct amount of tax, ie not (unwittingly) evading it.... Which is why many supply teachers get suckered into it by being shown comparisons of the take home pay - clearly they are tempted by the higher net figure - like the bankers, just different scale.

EdithSitwell · 11/03/2015 19:37

Thanks so much for your help DGTR. I've just had another look. 3 and a half days at £90 per day = £315-But it doesn't actually say that this is my gross pay- It says "These are employee charge out rates per client".
The breakdown of my actual pay looks like this.

  1. Salary (21.00 @ NMW (6.50) = £136.50
(EEK!!!!!! I've just realised this probably means 21 hours at National Minimum Wage!!!!!!)
  1. Commission: £ 61.71
  2. Reimbursed expenses £ 59.23
They appear to be taxing the three components above altogether and also deducting NI. With deductions I take home £249 I'm beginning to feel really sick about this. I've been a supply teacher since Christmas. I had no idea until now what how devalued supply teachers have become.
DontGotoRoehampton · 12/03/2015 17:45

Edith - would be a good idea to get your union to have a look at this. If you are not in a union, join one! (And the union subscription ARE legally tax-deductible Grin)
The fact they are re-categorising your pay into chunks (commission????)like that for no good reason makes no sense unless they are fiddling NI.
There is probably a reduction in tax for you re the petrol costs, but this is a fiddle and really is not a good thing to get into, as there are complicated rules around petrol costs and where there are not valid.

DontGotoRoehampton · 12/03/2015 17:46

Also, if you don't mind revealing it - how much do you pay the UC to process your pay?

DontGotoRoehampton · 12/03/2015 18:23

Umbrella Company Con Trick explains it - re NMW, expenses etc - although his examples are based on the construction industry, it is clearly the same scam re NMW, untaxed exps etc.

EdithSitwell · 12/03/2015 18:41

Thank you DGTR, Will look into it. I'm in the NUT. I'm interested to know how supportive of supply teachers the unions are. Having recently left a permanent position after twenty four years, this is a whole new ball game for me. To answer your last question, Employer's Margin for that particular week was £21 plus Employers National Insurance of £6.24.

PrincessSlayer · 12/03/2015 19:15

If I did need to report my agency, how would I do it? Just ring the REC?
I have a feeling they are backing out of what they've said and now am really worried again Sad

OP posts:
DontGotoRoehampton · 12/03/2015 19:20

On the REC website there is a link to email them with any issues, which is what I did.
On the TES Supply forum there are also knowledgeable peeps...

PrincessSlayer · 12/03/2015 19:56

The agency have now come back to me and said that they only offer payE if the employee has their own company?? I don't understand that... They're a supply agency?
Will call the REC first thing in the morning to check but now I'm sick with worry that I'm back to square one having to look for a new agency if things turn sour!

OP posts:
DontGotoRoehampton · 12/03/2015 20:23

Please don't be sick with worry!
The agency should offer PAYE. That is completely normal and the default for employees of UK companies.
If you PM me, happy to give you details of the agencies I work for as a supply teacher who offer normal PAYE.
Are you in a union?
They will help you.

RinkyDinkyDoo · 12/03/2015 20:57

Princess I have pm'd you

happyteacher1 · 13/03/2015 15:18

I am registered with MANY agencies, and they ALL pay PAYE. If they tell you that they don't, they are lying.

grandmainmypocket · 13/03/2015 19:17

Speak to an accountant and they can give you advice. I've used umbrella companies in a previous job and it was fine.
When you get paid PAYE, sometimes you lose out financially. Don't rush.
speaking to an accountant you trust is a good idea. Don't be put off all umbrella companies.

DontGotoRoehampton · 13/03/2015 20:21

Grandma, re the losing out financially - as I said in a previous post, if you are evading tax, like a banker, you will be temporarily better off. when the taxman catches up with you (and morally, if that matters to you) not so much...

grandmainmypocket · 14/03/2015 20:21

Excuse me. I didn't say anything about evading tax.
The OP came and asked for advice from other honest people about their experiences. There's a fine line between arguing your point and bullying anyone who disagrees with you.

EdithSitwell · 18/03/2015 19:16

Extract from today's Budget:

1.250 - Autumn Statement 2014 announced that the government would review the growing use of overarching contracts of employment that allow some temporary workers and their employers to benefit from tax relief for home-to-work travel expenses, relief not generally available to other workers. This is unfair. As a result of the review, the government will change the rules to restrict travel and subsistence relief for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company, and under the supervision, direction and control of the end-user. This will take effect from April 2016 following a consultation on the detail of the changes. It will level the playing field between employment businesses that seek to lower their costs by using these arrangements and those that do not.

1.251 - Stakeholders have also raised concerns that individuals do not understand how their take-home pay is affected by these arrangements. The government wants employment intermediaries to provide workers with greater transparency on how they are employed, and what they are being paid. The Department of Business Innovation and Skills will consult on these proposals on transparency later this year.

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 08/04/2015 08:16

Apologies for bumping a slightly old thread, but I just want to thank posters for useful advice and the recommendation to use PAYE. My DP works in the construction industry and it's exactly the same there.

We are going to look into asking his agency about paying him PAYE rather than through the umbrella company who are just stealing half his wages and tricking him into tax evasion which he does not want to be part of. All he wants is to go to work and earn an honest wage and pay his taxes fairly.

Most people who work on building sites (brickies, plasterers, plant drivers etc) are agency staff who are offered what sounds like a reasonable wage for a skilled job (eg £12 per hour for a 40 hour week).

However when he gets paid through the umbrella company they pay it as minimum wage and then some of the extra is made up via 'expenses' and bonuses. It's a hassle to send in all the receipts every week but we have to do it or else his wages are short.

I help him do his accounts and I am dreading doing his tax return (he has a number of 'jobs' so has been on self assessment for a while and it was OK until this year when the Umbrella companies start).

I was thinking of setting him up as a limited company but it seems that the law is changing again (up to last year he was in the construction industry scheme which is a way of taking tax of them straight away instead of via a tax return but that has now been outlawed as that required them to be self employed which HMRC says they are not) but I don't know if it would be worth it for the amount he earns (about £20k per year).

The way I see it is that the umbrella companies are parasitic scamming bastards that are exploiting people trying to earn an honest wage due to them:

making the EMPLOYEE pay the EMPLOYERS national insurance contributions.
Charging over £1k per year for the pleasure of processing wages
Forcing the employees into unwanted tax evasion in a desperate attempt to keep not even something like a fair cut of their own hard earned wages.

And it looks like we are going to lose his expenses for last week because his claim 'was selected for audit' and the receipts he gets from the little sandwich shop he buys his lunch from don't have the correct date on . And also he didn't buy anything one day but still claimed because otherwise they just steal another tenner a day off his wages. (They don't ask for him to send receipts in they just say to retain them so we have been claiming the money at the encouragement of the umbrella company otherwise they just take half his wages).

Wouldn't it be nice if you could say to the umbrella company 'I don't want to bother with all this expenses, bonuses and minimum wage bollocks, what I want you to do is pay me what the agency give you, minus a reasonable marging for your costs' (we didn't have that much of a problem with the £18 a week for their margin when he was on CIS because he got all the rest of his wages minus the tax that was taken off).

It looks like it is going to be even more important to be on PAYE with the agency if the law changes because if people can't get the expenses, they will end up earning only minimum wage despite doing a skilled qualified job, whether it be supply teaching or in the building trade. Angry.

Does anyone know if you can be PAYE on more than one agency? DP is on a long term contract at the moment (few months) but before that it was two weeks here and the odd day there for 2 or 3 different agencies.

He also expects to end his building site work in a few weeks because he has other work that does not involve agencies, umbrella companies or the construction industry in the summer and he only took on the building site work to earn money out of season from his main work.

ArcangelaTarabotti · 08/04/2015 08:49

The way I see it is that the umbrella companies are parasitic scamming bastards that are exploiting people trying to earn an honest wage due to them
Yes - you have defined them accurately.
Yes you can be PAYE with as many agencies as you want - I am with four. On is entirely decent, pays no quibble. The others attempt from time to time to pile on the pressure and show this comical mock horror when you say you will only work if paid PAYE - I just resist this, tell 'em my financial advisor or accountant has told me to go PAYE and then they temporarily shut up, until another 'consultant' joins the company and has another attempt. One (I don't work for now) presented me (reluctantly) with a payslip that showed no deductions, on a technicality - I was paid less than £155 the two weeks I worked for them. Reputable agencies the make the normal deductions even for small amounts. Then at the year end it all comes out in the wash on the tax return and you get a refund.

The practices you describe re sandwich shops are shocking. You should report the to the REC - if everyone did the REC would have to take at least a token interest in the exploitation.

happyteacher1 · 08/04/2015 15:54

"Does anyone know if you can be PAYE on more than one agency? DP is on a long term contract at the moment (few months) but before that it was two weeks here and the odd day there for 2 or 3 different agencies."

Hi OnIlkley....This is the answer left to this question on the TES Supply Teachers' Forum:

You simply ring HMRC and tell them how you want to split the two agencies' tax allowance - you can split them 50/50, or, if you get more work with one, you can choose another combination e.g. 70/30 or 80/20 - it's up to you. They get very busy, so best to ring out of peak hours - I have always found the best time to ring is when they open at 8am. They are very helpful, and will sort out your tax allowance IMMEDIATELY

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