Passed over for pretty young thing.....Ho hum don't u love being 40 odd....

[Doowrah]

Felling sorry for myself a tiny bit.Five interviewees.... Three let go at lunch.Just myself and pretty, young, inexperienced and less qualified girl and she gets the post. Male head. Young girl was very nice, bright and on many levels I am glad she was given her chance. Good luck to her. On the other I feel my age and experience count for very little. I also felt very sad for the candidates let go at lunch....all three very nice and have something good to offer. I do feel that there is a glut of teachers just being under valued or being denied any chance to succeed.Awful situation....

I'm sorry you are disappointed. In a few days, approach the head and ask for feedback. Experience and knowledge are often hidden by poor technique.

I know you are probably just ranting on here, but if you really think that you lost out because the other candidate was pretty and young then you need to think seriously about what you saw of her performance that makes you so sure of that.

Good lord, thanks for that.

She's on a lower pay scale, that might be a factor.

NQT? Cheaper innit? Our school loves an NQT to save money.

Yes...budget has a lot to do with it. I have just spent two days doing supply for an NQT released because he is struggling to cope.

Yep, it's NQT's all the way here.
Cheaper the better seems to be the school's alternative motto.

But imagine one department full of NQTs and the stress it places on the other staff? Surely that's a trump card to play in any interview, the fact you can walk in and not need hand holding. I'd have employed you, OP!

Gawd bless you Brookville...as it happens I am very happy on supply. I get to see a wide variety of schools and meet shed loads of different, often very interesting people not to mention kids. It could be a lot worse.

i have appointed many a teacher
pay scales have never ONCE come into it

I know you're disappointed but please don't insinuate that the candidate that was appointed over you only got the job because she is inexpensive, pretty and the head is male. I have worked with a number of very good teachers who were only a few years into their careers but had the fresh ideas and enthusiasm to make a difference.

It's very cynical and unfair to assume someone got a teaching job on appearance/ age rather than merit. As a 22 year old NQT a number of years ago, I had much more experienced teachers appointed over me so the cheap NQT thing isnt always true. I ended up finding the right school and doing very well. Now is your chance to get feedback, move on and find something else that is right.

She will have been cheaper!

Where are you? I am surprised you have a glut of teachers, there is a huge shortage here. What subject is it for?

Experience means very little these days. I was passed over (MPS 6) for an NQT to teach a Y5 class. I know an NQT got it because a colleague's relative worked at the school. A colleague got passed over for a AST job (without it being advertised) over a much younger and inexperienced member of staff (5/6 years of which 10 months actively coordinating a core subject). Union involvement, the original person asked to do the role passed on it eventually (citing personal reasons but everyone thinks it is because she didn't want the job in such circumstances) and the role was advertised externally and interviewed. I wasn't at school at the time all this occurred (off on long term sick) and I was told about 8 weeks prior who was lined up for the role. (Don't know her) Apparently someone I think complained (council I think) and a lot of governors who knew the person 'withdrew' from the selection and interview process but by then they had apparently made it clear who they wanted. That person did get the job. I am 'not bothered' by it all. It is something that cannot be fought.
A past head once said to me that it isn't what you know either it is WHO you know. That seems to have been confirmed and even my present head said that is the case these days.
So not just budget but a 'wink, wink, I will get you the job' is a big reason why lots of us are passed over. 15 years experience and I seem to get the shite nobody else wants and am overlooked a lot hence why my confidence is rock bottom and probably why I would now never make a good SLT member because I can't see a way to improve my self esteem now. If others don't think highly of you, kinda destroys your own internal belief in 'yourself'.

Ellie 6655 you are very quick to make assumptions about me and apparently that is alright. I have not said she did not deserve the job on her own merit or that she wasn't bright. But having talked to her for an hour and a half I can tell you that as with any 21 year old she has had a very limited life experience and that also will be reflected in what she can bring to a working table. The fact that you dismiss the value of an older person's knowledge and experience base only demonstrates your own inability to perceive a wider appreciation of the issues in play. Thank you for your patronizing suggestion to get feedback and move on, it has already been done.

Caironam I live in West Country, desirable place to live....loads of people chasing jobs.
Ridingthestorm don't let them destroy your confidence it is all so ridiculous now I have grave concerns for the state of our schools and I am just glad my own DC has passed through before it all really does go belly up.

Doowrah

What would you like posters to infer from

"pretty, young, inexperienced and less qualified girl and she gets the post. Male head."

I can reassure you that interview panels ive been on do not make financial evaluations and I must've appointed about 20 to 25 teachers in my time. I wonder if there are schools where they do actually choose the cheaper one. I know I would rather have a colleague I could rely on just to get on with the job even if I was saving a few thousand pounds

You are quite right Boneyback...I had a brief cynical moment I do apologise.Are you also of the opinion that every 21 year old employed has always been employed on their own merits and are clearly uber teachers in the making?

A private school head made no bones about the fact he employed young pretty teachers because he felt they were not already jaded and complacent and gave him a good view.

My Head looks like a pretty young thing to me. That's when you are really getting past it.

Some young teachers in management are out of their depth and some old teachers are only there because they can't be fired.

But it's not fair to dismiss either based on their age.

Sorry you didn't get the job OP, but i hope you are just feeling a bit down atm and don't really have such little respect for your colleagues in the profession just because they are younger than you and "pretty". Young teachers have just as much to offer, surely... Just slightly different things than older teachers, perhaps. We need both to make a well rounded school.

Love, a not young or pretty ex-teacher.

I thought results were everything in schools these days? Would a head seriously jeopardise their schools performance by appointing someone less capable but young and pretty?

I've been on the other side of this. As a fairly new graduate, I was promoted after a few months over someone who'd been there years. The reason apparently was because I was from the same city as the Section head. Nothing whatsoever to do with the fact I'd been flexible, worked long hours, used my brain to learn a lot about the area of work, had brilliant independent feedback from the auditors and scored the highest out of the entire team on the externally set exam we'd all had to sit. Oh no, the boss was playing favourites.

still no evidence of anyone that they have actually heard this mentioned by the people appointing.

Doowrah

I have worked with fantastic teachers that have been brilliant straight from uni, I have worked with teachers that are still fantastic after 20+years.

But I have also worked with some new teachers that didn't past their NQT, others that left after 2 - 3 terms/years and worked with teachers that should have left the profession years before.

But I suspect that the truth is that at one point we were all "uber teachers in the making" as for all 21 year old teachers being employed on their merits, I would hope so. We have on several occasions not appointed as the candidates were not up to scratch and that is from a pool of young and old.

I am reassured Armpitt by that and I know other Head teachers of the same ilk. I just had a humpy moment as believe it or not I am not a bad teacher and have always been deemed good or outstanding in every observation. I am pleased to have come second out of a field of five. I do question the motivation of some appointments though.

Just to clear it up I have known and worked fantastically well with some NQTs and I am nowhere near narrow-minded enough to believe schools should only appoint experienced teachers. I also believe in a healthy balance.

Do we need evidence Armpitt? After all nine times out of ten what is said is often not what is meant.