Teacher training with young DC - realistic?

[fatterface]

I'm looking at applying for teacher training next year, possibly through a salaried school direct position. My children will be 2.5, 6 and 9 then. Has anyone done similar? Any comments on whether it is realistic?

The job bears little resemblance to how it was when I first started teaching. But then I taught for long stints in two fairly non-typical, traditional schools (a faith school and a private girls' school), both of which did their own thing. I loved not having to use NC levels in the private school. The whole set-up allowed much more freedom to teachers to teach the way they wanted. Observations were infrequent. 'Data' was no more than their homework marks (mostly marked out of 10) and end of year exam marks, which were given percentages and grades. Teachers had time to plan and teach instead of being constantly inputting data, trying to prove they were doing their job properly, responding to endless emails about individual pupils. I could go on... Anyway, it was bliss by comparison.

Well this is my day today.
Arrived at work 7.15am
Marked until 7.45 am
Met member of staff sworn at by student on Friday. Turned out he had been really rude to her - called her a name after she had thrown something across the room and been rude to him. She has diagnosed SEN.
8.15 am Saw student and too a statement from her - she told the truth
8.30 am Went to special carol assembly
9.15 am Spoke to parent of student and arranged meeting for this afternoon. Parent very upset at her child being called names by member of staff.
9.30 am Set work for 4 classes formember of staff off sick who had not sent in work.
10.00- lunchtime Taught Y12, Y11 and 52 students in all
Lunchtime - extra lesson with Y11 students off target at the moment
This afternoon:
T aught Y8- 30 students
Taught Y 11 - 31 students
Meeting for 1 hr after school- dept moderation of coursework.
40 minutes- Met parent of girl who swore at member of staff- issue resolved, plan in place. Wrote letter to GP to support parent and child with anger management.
Just got home.
37 weeks pregnant, 25 exam papers to mark tonight.

It is very helpful when people are willing t o list their daily activities and timings - especially as one further chore on top!.
Before I was a teacher I did not know about all the stuff outside the classroom, and if I ever thought about it, would have assumed that teachers had free periods in the day sufficient to do all the marking and planning. ( When I taught in France, teachers taught 16 or 12 hours a day (more qualified + fewer hours) and did not have tutor groups, minimal meetings, minimal data.) Big surprise at all the non-teaching reqs here.
Would good if potential teaching candidates could properly shadow a teacher for a few weeks, instead of just observing carefully chosen lessons.

At least now teachers have allocated PPA time. When I was an NQT, we only had half a day a week whereas now you would get a full day for NQT and PPA time. Hence in my second year of teaching, we had no non contact time until half day PPA was introduced.

I qualified 10 years ago too, sunshine and got PPA and NQT time

One of the big changes in recent years has been expectations with marking. When I started, a page full of ticks, a 10/10 and a well done was fine. Then it was comment only marking. Now I have to write a bloody essay about what they did well, give them some stuff to improve, they then have to write a response, address my concerns and then I'm supposed to check they did what I asked them to do. Marking now takes up so much more time.

Also, back then, if your kids were getting above C at GCSE everything was ok. Now a certain percentage have to make 3 levels of progress, some 4 and even some 5. So even a top set is feeling the pressure. And if you are teaching a kid who should be getting a C but isn't, the amount of paperwork you need to fill out to justify this, and what interventions are put in place, are ridiculous, especially if the kid is simply a lazy arse who deserves to fail. Pupil premium focus is also a new thing. Are you asking PP kids more questions in lessons, are they sat at the front, are you marking their books first? How have you offered extra support to your PP kids lately? Please document and return by tomorrow.

I used to be observed a couple of times a year. Now my door is constantly swinging to learning walks, typicality observations, performance management observations, drop-ins, SEN and pupil premium observations.

Teaching has changed a lot.

also of course the pressure to cheat. you need to hit unrealistic targets and are pressured to do so using illegal methods if needs be
teachers with moral standards struggle with that.

I started teaching 31 years ago, we had no probationer time (this was pre NQT jargon) out of the classroom and no mentors. You were a teacher, you went in and taught and the head decided if you were worth keeping at the end of the year. Still massively easier than teaching has become in the last few years.

I spoke to a couple of recently qualified teachers at my workplace today, and they reckoned that although the PGCE year was tough, they now work 7.30am-5.30pm in school and rarely do anything in the evenings or weekends unless it's report time

well good luck with it all then, you sound like you are pretty keen on it

I haven't decided anything yet, but I was pretty surprised to hear about their workload compared to what I have read on here. Maybe it's a difference between primary and secondary.

I think that it depends very much these days on the school that you work in. Your current school sounds relatively sensible, with work load that is manageable. However, be very very careful as that is rarely the case these days.

Last year I worked in a primary that had a hideous workload. I've been a teacher for 20 years, and the last few years saw huge changes. Yes, in the past 10 years we've always had pressures on data, but this was something else entirely - every 6 weeks you had to produce a data pack which analysed progression and attainment APS in minute detail - various groups had to be analysed - FSM, school action, school action+, boys, girls, slow movers, different intervention groups, and you then went to a meeting armed with the data ready to defend every child's data with notes on what you had done to ensure accelerated progress. It was also a school where every Friday ALL books and planning had to be left out for SMT's scrutiny. Planning had to be completely individualised with colour coded key questions for individual differentiated groups, each lesson being like an essay/script. It then all had to be annotated with quotes from children and analyse of how lesson went, and how it then affected your next lesson. And you had to do lesson plans for your TA. Children with misconceptions or difficulties had to be individually highlighted, with information on what their gap risk would be, completed before the next teaching session. This was for English, maths, mental maths, guided reading, and phonics DAILY, and Science and non-core weekly. This was on top of a very complicated marking system, where every piece of work had to be marked with a comment and next step, which every child had to respond to, and then you had to acknowledge their response. And there were weekly 'class room environment' checks - working walls (maths, English & science) and target displays, which had to be changed weekly. All of this was closely monitored with constant threats of capability if any of your standards slipped. That was not a school I wanted to work in.

I now work in a sensible school, where planning is detailed and scrutinised, but not nearly in as much depth, and teachers professional judgement and knowledge of children is taken into account without everything having to be evidenced on paper. Data is analysed once an old term, and the meeting is a supportive one, with all parties genuinely engaged in thinking of ways to help children whose progress has slowed. The marking policy is heavy, but not overwhelming.

So... Choose your school carefully. It makes a MASSIVE difference.

I agree with padkin - it varies from school to school. SMT in some schools are lovely, and avoid overburdening teachers. Some schools also give more PPA time than that recommended. However, there are a lot of other schools that are like the awful one that Padkin describes. It feels to me that more schools are going that way, perhaps because Headteachers are under so much pressure. I'm not teaching at the moment but if/when I go back I would do supply in lots of schools and get a feel for them first. Could you do all your training in the school you're currently working in, because it sounds like a good one? And then, hope for a vacancy to come up there as well?

Driftingoff, the OP will have to have a placement in a second school too.

Hi Op,

I have just finished my first teaching placement (through school direct).
I'm not going to lie and say it's easy...because it's not but if you are committed, then hours of lesson planning/marking/assessing are worth while if you love being in the class.

This placement I left home at 7.30 every day, arrived at school for 8.
8-8.55 were spent marking/printing resources etc then I was in class all day. I worked through break and lunch marking/prepping. I then worked at school/attended staff meetings each evening until 5ish.
Went home, made tea, did the bedtime routine with DS (7) then generally worked 8-12 each weekday evening and also most of Sunday.
Planning is taking me ages but I'm hoping that will improve as I gain experience.

But do you know what- I loved it...I love being with the children, I love planning lessons that engage the children, I love seeing whether they 'got it' or not.

It's tough, but if you're organised and put time aside everyday to just spend being 'mum' then it really isn't so bad. And getting to spend the holidays with your chn is also amazing. I am lucky that I have a good support network although I am a single parent which comes with it's own additional stresses.

I hope this doesn't sound like a naive view on teaching...but if it's something you really want to do, then go for it!

House, you sound like you will be an amazing teacher, exactly what the profession needs.

I can't believe OPs reason for teaching is a need to earn more money. If the driver isn't to give children the very best start in life you won't be an outstanding teacher.

What a load of piffle! I've been an outstanding teacher for the last 17 years and whilst I loved the job (until workload became unbearable about two years ago) and want to give children a good start but I go to work-it is a job after all-to get paid. Surely that isn't unusual!? You can be an outstanding teacher and want to be paid a decent wage.

I dis it with small children and as a single parent, I still am ,both a teacher and a single parent. Honestly I don't find it that bad,(sorry). Think it might be in comparison to my previous career as a child protection social worker.

A couple of things that help, I work four days a week and do planning marking etc. on my day off. I try to move schools every 2-3 years , keeps me fresh and I am really careful about schools I go to. I do get stressed and tired have a big class 31 children and have days when it all gets too much. Saying that I am now on holidays to the 5th of Jan.

Also having taught in England, Scotland and Ireland, England has by far the largest focus on paperwork and data collection, not saying there is no paperwork in the others a lot less. In Ireland I filled out a monthly sheet showing what I had done, now in Scotland I fill out a daily sheet.

What do you teach, feeling dizzy?

'What a load of piffle! '

You mean
you
don't
have
A Vocation?

You mean it's just a job you enjoy doing and doing well?

Don't let The Man know, having a vocation will be down on the list of requirements and qualifications needed to enter the profession. And you'll all have to sign in blood and tears.

Dizzy, I think your pose is very illuminating - paid for four days, but still working on the fifth. I am supply and enjoying it as no wasted time jumping thru SLT pointless hoops data/ planning/prep (although I do actually plan and make resources - can't help it! - but enjoy that part as it directly translates into an enjoyable and productive lesson).
If I ever take up a school post it will be three days, but in the knowledge that the other days will be spent on school work, but evenings and weekends free.

post not pose - sorry that sounded rude!

I did a PGCE with 4 children aged 6, 9, 12 and 15. I am a single parent with no other extended family support as they live too far away. It was one of the most difficult years of my life. I worked constantly, every single day late into the evening. I can count on one hand the amount of days that I had completely off with no work. I survived on four hours sleep a night.

I learned to let go of EVERYTHING. My house was filthy, (I don't mean a bit messy - I am talking about build up of scum and worse in bathrooms), my children wore unironed, dirty clothes. They did lots of their own housework including cooking. They did not have any friends over. I became on intimate terms with the lady who worked at the fish and chip shop.

Although I did well on the PGCE, my mental exhaustion meant that I never felt that I was doing anything very well. I was often very emotional, I felt sick every day. In the mornings when cleaning my teeth, I would heave. Once I got through it, I knew I couldn't do full-time so tried to do the NQT part-time, which meant fewer schools and jobs available to me. I did the NQT year in 2 horrible schools on short-term maternity-covering contracts. I completed the contracts but, obviously, only partially completed the NQT period. By this time, my confidence was shattered and my children couldn't remember who I was.

Last year I went back to being a TA. It's lovely.

It's possible. But it's very, very difficult.

Depressing reading, Rosabud; I hope you're happier now.

My PGCE was hard going and I had no children-I was 21 and DH (then partner) did everything-he cooked, cleaned, shopped, everything. The NQT year was hard as I had the responsibility of a class and then the year after was even harder as I lost all NQT non-contact time and had a subject responsibility! I lived from holiday to holiday and don't know what kids would have made of me as a mum. I went part time as soon as I had kids and even though they're older now, I still wouldn't want to do full time. It was hard even in the days when marking was just a tick, planning fitted on one side of A4, target setting barely existed and PMR, book scrutinies and observations hadn't been dreamt up.

I wouldn't recommend teaching to anyone now and I hate the fact I feel like that. I wanted to be a teacher since I was 7. Unfortunately, I think I wanted to be a teacher in the 1970s....

Before I had children I worked 7.30am-6pm in school and half a day at weekends. In the holidays I'd do medium term planning for the year in one week of the summer holidays, do reports in the summer half term and a day or two at Christmas/Easter. I always went into school to work, and never brought any home. Housework was done at the weekend, and was easy as two adults don't make that much mess/dirt. Washing likewise - one wash a week for each of us.

The problem with that once you have children, is that childcare opens at 8am and closes at 6pm. You have to include travel time in that, so getting into school at 8.30am and leaving at 5.30pm means that you need to do an hour and a half's work at home each day. Then there's the fact that at least an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening is taken up doing meals and looking after those children. So you have to get up at 6.30am even if childcare is just around the corner, and won't finish with the children until 7.30/8pm. After that you need to sort out the kitchen, wash at least one load, tidy up and set the house to rights. So at 9pm you sit down for your hour and a half's extra marking, and head to bed at 10.30pm. AS AN EXPERIENCED TEACHER.

In my PGCE I remember working until midnight on a regular basis. Placements could be far away, and so travel time was increased. I'd get in around 6pm with no extra responsibilities, cook dinner, and work 7pm-midnight. Then be up at 6am to leave at 7am in order to get to my placement for 8am. Weekends consisted of nothing but work.

I wouldn't do it yet. When do you think you will see your children? It is knackering and all-consuming for a single person. The job is challenging and demanding and the training is even worse.

The only poster who said do it hasn't done it yet!