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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Original poster

Teacher training with young DC - realistic?

119 replies

fatterface · 13/12/2014 14:13

I'm looking at applying for teacher training next year, possibly through a salaried school direct position. My children will be 2.5, 6 and 9 then. Has anyone done similar? Any comments on whether it is realistic?

OP posts:
ToffeeLatteplease · 14/12/2014 21:01

for only £400-500 difference a year there is no way I would do it

littlesupersparks · 14/12/2014 21:01

I mentor the trainers and young teachers in out department. It is a very very hard few years to start with. When I went into the profession there was a standard pay scale and reliable pension. Now your pay will be performance related - you may end up on the bottom rung for years. I feel so sorry for the new teachers with their prospects at the moment. It's horrendous pressure.

I would agree that waiting until your youngest is in school would be best. I would think your kids would need to be in childcare 7-5.30 or 7.30-6. Mine are in from 8-5 - my husband does drop off so I can go in earlier than that and I am part time so catch up on marking and planning on my days off. That's the only reason I can finish at 5. I have been in the same school for 9 years and can use many of my already prepared materials from previous years.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 14/12/2014 21:03

Noblegiraffe's first post has it.

I'm 15 years in and only manage because my husband does all the child-wrangling in term time and they are all resigned to not seeing much of me apart from in the holidays. I trained when I was young and childfree. Good job really as both my placements were miles away, the second one was not commutable and I had to stay over during the weeks.

It works out well enough for us as I am then around for holidays, I don't know how two-teacher families manage.

littlesupersparks · 14/12/2014 21:03

Is there any tutoring/private support you could consider doing to make up your salary? Are you primary? I know teachers can charge £25/£30 an hour and sure an experienced TA could command quite a high rate?

littlesupersparks · 14/12/2014 21:05

Oh and with regard to placements - my current student was going to be placed 2 hours away and has no transport - she was told 2 weeks before placement start and would have had to find digs/lodgings!! Then she was told a week before placement she was coming to us instead. Schools direct or
Scitt would hopefully be more local though.

Original poster
fatterface · 14/12/2014 21:07

Sorry, £4-500 a month.

OP posts:
Luciferbox · 14/12/2014 21:08

I'm a teacher and mentor many students. Those with DC, especially young ones find it very hard going. But it isn't impossible with support.

EveryNight · 14/12/2014 21:12

I was a TA, then did school direct last year and am now an NQT. Last year was not too bad, difficult but not desperately hard. This year so far is a killer. I'm not seeing enough of dcs and I'm on my knees at the moment. Not enough hours in the week.
However, I wouldn't change it, and I am told it will get better. I do have lots of support though, and dd is in wrap around care at school.

ToffeeLatteplease · 14/12/2014 21:22

Oh in that case I would do it but not until the youngest was at school.

sanfairyanne · 14/12/2014 21:27

some good things for you there then about the childcare and salary while training! at least you wont lose too much financially.
so a move from about 6 hours a day to 12 hours a day for about 20 quid extra? honestly, there must be easier ways to earn it!

Original poster
fatterface · 14/12/2014 21:42

If you know of any please let me know!

OP posts:
threepiecesuite · 14/12/2014 21:47

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Teaching is absolutely soul destroying at the moment. It really is.
Do you ever look on TES forums? They will give you a flavour for the picture at the moment. Look at the Pay and Progression section - so many teachers fighting battles over performance-related pay tied to unfair and overinflated so-called targets.

Zhx3 · 14/12/2014 22:08

Hi OP,
I am currently doing my PGCE, with 3 dc who are similarly-aged to yours. At the moment the three of them are in different schools, or not at school age yet.

The hours have been punishing, but similar to my previous job (industry, with a standard 5 weeks annual leave), I took a full 6 days off over the October half-term, and am looking forward to the Christmas break too. Currently though, I'm in exam-marking-essay-deadline hell, and pulled my first all-nighter this weekend (something I hope won't be a common occurrence).

Realistically I can only do this because:

  1. DH pulls his weight at home
  2. We have a nanny who does the school drop-offs and pick-ups, and looks after the youngest during the day. She also does bits and bobs around the house such as laundry and tidying when she has time.
  3. Although we haven't used them much, my parents are a back-up if our nanny is off for any reason

This year and next year are going to be really tough (we will lose our nanny when the youngest starts school next year), and I've been told that the 3rd year is the worst. I'm hoping to eventually move to part-time, so this current pain is part of a longer-term plan.

LuluJakey1 · 14/12/2014 22:15

My friend who also is a Head of Dept works part-time, 4 days a week and spends the whole of the day off working, every week, so she can not work two nights a week when she gets home at 6. She has two young children - 6 and 3 and her mother does the child care.

sanfairyanne · 14/12/2014 22:16

are you in a tutoring area? that can be very lucrative. or just a move away from education but something full time if that is what you are thinking of doing anyway.

fridascruffs · 14/12/2014 23:00

I finished the pgce a year and a half ago. I have 2dc, 7 and 8 atvcthe time, i am alone with them, no nanny (I wish!),parents aren't local, their dad lives abroad. I worked 70-80 hours a week during the placements. I survived with the help of a friend who entertained my kids at weekends quite often, and earplugs. It was awful. I wish I'd learned to be an electrician or something instead. I liked the teaching, I got a grade 1, but I want a life.

sanfairyanne · 14/12/2014 23:07

electrician is a brilliant idea Smile

threepiecesuite · 14/12/2014 23:18

I am thinking of learning a practical trade and becoming self-employed.
I am not enjoying teaching at all. Love working with young people, don't love data.

Littlemisssunshine72 · 15/12/2014 07:53

Don't mean to be controversial or anything but am genuinely curious as to why people are up in arms about teaching at the moment. I do part time supply at the mo, qualified 10 years ago and last time I had my own class was 2010. I understand the uproar over performance related pay but all the other things have always been in teaching surely? Such as data-time consuming but without it, how would you know what progress has been made, areas of improvement, etc. marking- policies have always been ridiculous what with one highlighter for one part of speech, another for another, etc. Children looked at as statistics rather than people. Observations have always taken place. Lessons being very prescriptive- may have changed in the way they are prescriptive but have always been so- ie. literacy/numeracy hour.
Obviously all this is time consuming when you have 30 in the class (I know, I have done it) but that after all is part of the job.
Also, many people on here are telling OP not to go for it and the drive shouldn't be about money but as someone else pointed out, many teachers take on more responsibility for the money. Why else? If the drive was to teach, then surely those people would remain class teachers rather than be desperate to take on responsibility in order to get the odd half day/ day out of the classroom (which was the case in my last school).
I know a few friends who did their PGCE with young children and they are fine, but as mentioned, you will lose family time but obviously an income is important too. Not all teachers knew they wanted to be teachers from the age of 5 and have gone on to be 'outstanding' teachers. Do whatever feels right.

DustInTheWind · 15/12/2014 08:06

'Don't mean to be controversial or anything but am genuinely curious as to why people are up in arms about teaching at the moment. I do part time supply at the mo, qualified 10 years ago and last time I had my own class was 2010. '

If you'd been teaching full time for the last 10 years, then you would understand. I'm doing full time supply ATM, and it's like a sabbatical.
I'm never going back to FT class teaching, and that's after 30 years in the job.

holmessweetholmes · 15/12/2014 08:22

If I'm honest, for me it's not just the data (which I hate), the pressure, all the stuff people are going on about. I just have to face the fact that I don't enjoy teaching any more. At all. After 20 years I just have zero patience any more with poor behaviour and kids who don't want to learn. Which seems to be a hell of a large proportion of them. And I am one of the 'wanted to be a teacher since I was a kid' brigade.

Sorry OP - your thread isn't the place for my moaning. The profession needs new people like you to replace the people who are desperate to get out, like me!

sanfairyanne · 15/12/2014 09:12

its all in your post, littlemisssunshine

part time supply is probably great and probably what the op will end up doing in a few years full time. it just isnt sustainable long term for most people now as a full time long term job, esp primary. others try to 'move up' rather than out but opportunities are more limited

its just that by doing the hardest 5 years while her kids are young, the op will be sacrificing a lot for not much benefit. pre kids or when they are older, it would be less of a sacrifice.

sanfairyanne · 15/12/2014 09:15

the op is obviously already interested in teaching as she is a ta, so that part is a red herring. its ok to want the money. just to work out the hourly actual rate and decide if it is still worth it.
i would recommend anyone who can, looks at international schools btw. fantastic life

Littlemisssunshine72 · 15/12/2014 12:12

I understand the pressures, but I don't understand how it has changed so much as those pressures have always been there. I agree it's a hard job but people always say how it has changed but from since I qualified I had to
make sure that children made a certain number of sublevels progress, had observations, had to
use data, etc. I'm just interested as if I found myself back in the classroom full time, whether it would be harder than before or the same (as I can't see the difference but that must just be me!)

bronya · 15/12/2014 12:54

I think it's something to do with the fact that the current 'official' way to teach, just doesn't actually work. Children cannot retain knowledge without consolidation, and with no retained knowledge, you've got nothing there to build on next time you visit a topic to move them on. With the 'drop in' culture of observations, you can't even just do it 'their way' for observations, but have to do it all the time.

So combine methods that don't work, with increasing pressure to do the impossible in terms of progress. Failing to reach the impossible targets, using the useless methods will then ensure you never progress up the pay scale. That would stress anyone out. It's like asking you to bake a cake but not allowing you to have the oven at the correct temperature AND banning a key ingredient. Not possible!