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Original poster

The Madness of Gove - discuss

116 replies

LizzieVereker · 03/02/2014 19:32

Explore and analyse the extent of the the Education Secretary's insanity. You must support your answer with evidence (despite the fact he doesn't).
Gove's latest "plan"

OP posts:
MrsHerculePoirot · 04/02/2014 06:44

claw2 because no such school existed as shown by a freedom on information request. His speech was subsequent changed by the department of education on the site where they are published. He outright lied about it...

TamerB · 04/02/2014 06:45

You could cane children in 1970s! Would people really want to go back to that? Hmm

It does seem that he can't get back grammar schools and so he will give every pupil a grammar school education, despite the fact that 75% are not suited to it. The average IQ is 100 and grammar school and university was never for the average.
We need an education system that differentiates and suits the needs of all, including all those with SN. His idea appears to be that if you have a square peg in a round hole you just keep hammering until they fit!

Teachers are against all the many changes, implemented by people who haven't a clue, who then don't give it time but find it doesn't work ( which they are told in the first place, but don't listen) and then change again. If you are going to have changes, they need time to establish and work.

I am pleased that mine have gone through the system, two of them would certainly not suit it. There needs to be room for the practical and artistic and not just the academic. You can't force them to be academic. It all sounds rather like the French teacher who kept my dyslexic son in to learn the spellings because he got most of them wrong. I don't generally interfere but I did point out that he can't spell in English and he could be kept in until Christmas but he still wouldn't be able to get them right!

I also wouldn't want them in school for any more hours than they are already and I don't see how teachers could physically cope with more when they have so much planning, preparation, record keeping and marking to do.

I don't think Gove has a clue! Having come up with his 'wonderful' idea of picking up litter or writing lines, what does he propose to do with the child who says 'I am not doing it' ( in rather stronger language!)

MrsHerculePoirot · 04/02/2014 06:47

here

The problem is that many not in teaching will just believe him as he has stated it as fact to try to
Prove his point. There are improvements to be made in schools, no- one disputes that, but he is not making them based on any research or evidence, just a personal whim.

TamerB · 04/02/2014 07:00

It is an impossibility MrsHerculePoirot. My son's school had a great name for teaching SN ( and the whole range), so much so that they were designated a Beacon school and the Head met the Prince of Wales at a special reception for Heads of outstanding schools but they were never top of any league tables. They couldn't be. My son, with a great deal of help, achieved the level 4's but it would have needed a magic wand to get him way above average in the way Gove is saying he has seen!

CouthyMow · 04/02/2014 07:35

My DD left Primary still working on p-scales. How does that work when Gove is insisting that all DC's should be 'above average'?

I think Gove needs to go back to school - my 10yo with SN can explain just what 'average' means...

claw2 · 04/02/2014 07:41

Giraffe Sorry perhaps I didn't explain that very well, I meant I would be interested in hearing other opinions, the teaching profession or others on how performance and assessment can be improved.

What would you do to improve performance and assessment in schools?

EauRouge · 04/02/2014 07:41

The more mad shit he comes out with, the fewer people I get asking me why we home educate.

EauRouge · 04/02/2014 07:42

Oh sorry, this came up in active convos- didn't realise it was a teachers' thread

claw2 · 04/02/2014 07:51

MrsHercules oh yes I know what you mean now, the school didn't exist in as much as he exaggerated that ALL children of a certain school were achieving about the national average, when in fact not ALL children were. There were no schools where ALL children achieved above the national average (well there was one or two if I remember rightly, just not one that he named)

CouthyMow · 04/02/2014 07:51

Grin EauRouge!

Grockle · 04/02/2014 07:58

Eau! It is that though - he just spouts mad shit. he seems to come up with something new every day and much of it is contradictory, makes no sense or is an outright lie.

I cannot believe that any sane & rational person can support him. He's utterly bonkers. I find it very hard to believe that he has spent more than 2 minutes in any sort of school.

rollonthesummer · 04/02/2014 08:19

He wants grammar schools, I think! He doesn't seem to care what happens to the 75% that wouldn't pass. How fab were secondary moderns?

Would you get the minister for transport saying, 'I went on a bus in the 1970s and it was brilliant. It was a yellow bus-let's paint them all yellow and it'll be just like the seventies again.' Or the foreign secretary saying, 'I watched Bugsy Malone once and it was brilliant-let's all have splurge guns!'.

He can't make spurious and random decisions based on how he personally recalls the past?! Education needs to be removed from ministers and given to a group of people with experience in, erm, schools?!

AHardDaysWrite · 04/02/2014 08:22

Here's a great example of Gove's thinking for you.

The Ofsted criteria for secondary school performance has changed. Ofsted aren't bothered (contrary to what Mr Gove thinks) about "the whole child" or extra curricular provision. My (State)school has one of the best school orchestras in the country - ofsted didn't even go and see them when they inspected us recently. All they are bothered about is progress, by which they mean how many students make three levels of progress from ks2 to ks3. So if a child gets level 4 when they're 11, they must automatically get a C at all their GCSE subjects. And that's minimum expected progress - schools are judged too on how many pupils exceed minimum expected progress. Never mind that there's a vast difference between an 11 year old and a 16 year old and that some kids live in environments not conducive to learning. None of that is taken into consideration.

Now, I have no problem with high expectations of schools and students. But here's where it gets ridiculous: if one student - just one - doesn't make three levels of progress, a school is automatically graded 3 (requires improvement) by ofsted. No matter what the student's circumstances are, no matter how brilliant the school is at tackling bullying or providing extra-curricular activities - to ofsted, students are just numbers on a graph of progress. And one is enough to pull a whole school's verdict down.

This is where Gove's lack of joined-up thinking comes in. You see, he thinks all this is very good. We should have a relentless drive for higher standards, should be pushing and pushing for better results etc. Fine. But in the next breath, Gove states that exams are too easy and too many students get A*. So what does he want? More top results, or fewer? He then changes the goalposts - so he scraps coursework, resits, modules etc to make everything harder - but schools are judged on exactly the same criteria as when things were easier. How is that fair?

AHardDaysWrite · 04/02/2014 08:23

Sorry, three levels of progress from ks2 to ks4.

TamerB · 04/02/2014 08:27

It would be almost funny if it wasn't so tragic, AHardDaysWrite. Bonkers!

TamerB · 04/02/2014 08:28

May not read well. Gove is bonkers- AHardDaysWrite is sane and sensible!

Grockle · 04/02/2014 08:35

'if one student - just one - doesn't make three levels of progress, a school is automatically graded 3 (requires improvement) by ofsted.'

I agree with the rest of your post but where did you get that from? Do you have a link because that's just not accurate.

AHardDaysWrite · 04/02/2014 08:38

Grockle I don't have a link but it's what the lead inspector told my Head at our recent inspection.

rollonthesummer · 04/02/2014 08:50

'if one student - just one - doesn't make three levels of progress, a school is automatically graded 3 (requires improvement) by ofsted.'

We were recently Ofsteded and I know three of my class from last year didn't make three sublevels progress in writing. We got a Good, so this can't be true!?

rollonthesummer · 04/02/2014 08:52

Ooop-sorry, I've just read your post properly. You mean 3 levels in secondary. Ignore my post-I'm primary! Sorry.

AHardDaysWrite · 04/02/2014 08:53

It's three overall levels from ks2 to 4, not sub levels.

claw2 · 04/02/2014 08:54

Aharddays So why aren't the children who are capable of getting a level 4 at 11 years, continuing with their line of progress and capable of getting a C grade at GCSE? This is the average, not above average. Surely you would expect most children to continue with their line of progress when starting secondary school?

"Overall, more than 215,000 state school pupils (38%) failed to make the progress expected of them in maths between starting secondary school and sitting their GCSEs. In the same period, more than 170,000 youngsters failed to make the expected progress in English. On average, if a child leaves primary school with a Level 4 in maths or English, they are expected to get a C in the subject at GCSE"

TamerB · 04/02/2014 08:57

Children are humans and not robots! There are any number of reasons why they fail in that time.

TamerB · 04/02/2014 08:58

Wouldn't life be simple if everyone got a target and stuck to it and achieved it within a given time span!

BirdintheWings · 04/02/2014 09:01

yes, you'd expect MOST to manage that progress, but what about:
the one with a bereavement (DS's friend lost a parent)
the one with a long-term health problem between key stage assessment (DS)
the one who moved schools through bullying and started self-harming...?