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Original poster

The Madness of Gove - discuss

116 replies

LizzieVereker · 03/02/2014 19:32

Explore and analyse the extent of the the Education Secretary's insanity. You must support your answer with evidence (despite the fact he doesn't).
Gove's latest "plan"

OP posts:
wonderstuff · 03/02/2014 23:10

wetaugust I'm sure he thinks he's raising standards, he's also making a career for himself and opening up the state sector to private business. The fact is huge numbers of teachers are leaving the profession, state education faces challenges he doesn't understand.

OddFodd · 03/02/2014 23:14

I think he's very misguided wetaugust. And to a more general point, I find it quite frightening that politicians who have no practical or theoretical training in the area that they are put in charge of can wield such an enormous amount of power.

I don't know how he's making his decisions but as far as I can tell, he's not listening to or being advised by any education professionals

wonderstuff · 03/02/2014 23:14

I think he believes he is right and most people would stop and take note when everybody with experience disagrees with you.

EvilTwins · 03/02/2014 23:14

wet - you're in The Staffroom. Good luck defending Gove.

Don't forget his old assertion that everyone should be above average.

wetaugust · 03/02/2014 23:14

I do think though he struggles to tell Fantasy from reality...

So he's psychotic now is he?

Madasabox · 03/02/2014 23:18

I think he is brilliant....and am off to bed so feel free to shout at me while I am asleep :-)

morethanpotatoprints · 03/02/2014 23:19

I took my child out of school and H.ed now. I am so glad I did and
feel sorry for any child who struggles, they will be so worse off, he is going to make children suffer just as the children of the 70's did. Sad

MrsHerculePoirot · 03/02/2014 23:19

Well he has lied about things to try and make his points (claiming he has visited schools with a higher number of students with SEN than average who also got above average results or something similar...). Either he is an outright liar, or a fantasist...

soul2000 · 03/02/2014 23:20

No he is like a Religious Zealot, who is introduced to the theory of evolution. Even after being shown the evidence still believes that god created the world in 7 days.

ouryve · 03/02/2014 23:25

Gove's an utter pillock. There's plenty of ways of elaborating on that without resorting to disablist comments, though.

claw2 · 03/02/2014 23:28

Mrshercule - "claiming he has visited schools with a higher number of students with SEN than average who also got above average results or something similar...). Either he is an outright liar, or a fantasist..."

Why?

wetaugust · 03/02/2014 23:31

he is going to make children suffer just as the children of the 70's did

I didn't suffer. I was able to study in a quiet classroom and was not interrupted by the anti-social behaviour of my classmates.

A very different experience to that which my own DSs experienced and which is shown in programs such as Educating xxxx.

morethanpotatoprints · 03/02/2014 23:43

wetaugust

How do you think he's going to reach all children with his stupid proposals?
You are fortunate to have had a good education, many of us didn't.
As you say quieter classrooms, no anti - social behaviour, everyone was scared to death.
Having to be above average is not good for people with learning disabilities. It is a living hell, I can tell you.

MostWicked · 03/02/2014 23:53

Many of the kids who didn't behave in 70s schools, were simply excluded, and many of them, ended up in prison. The vast majority of the prison population are illiterate. That's hardly a great reflection on the education standards of the day.

Gove is an utter arse, his one size fits all solutions, will only fit 10% of children.

GiraffesAndButterflies · 03/02/2014 23:58

When you start playing the man and not the ball you have lost your argument.

Or it means that after a politician has suggested/introduced policy A which is bloody stupid, policy B which is bloody stupid, policy C which is bloody stupid, and so on all through the alphabet, you start to notice a pattern.

He's a dangerous man to be in charge of our education system. He is pigheadedly determined that if he thinks something is a good idea, then so it must be, and no matter if all the evidence and professional opinion says otherwise. Angry

wetaugust · 03/02/2014 23:58

Yep - I forgot that was one of the criteria of the 70s classroom - we were scared to death of the teachers.

soul2000 · 04/02/2014 00:02

I don't think the 1980s were very good either,having suffered with no support or understanding. Being deemed to be thick on the sole basis of having Illegible handwriting as decided by one "Enlightened Teacher"....

claw2 · 04/02/2014 00:05

2000 isn't any better

wetaugust · 04/02/2014 00:07

Well he couldn't make our local bog standard comp any worse.

Catchment area of mainly owner-occupied houses with aspirational and engaged parents yet its A level results are dire and don't even think about a red brick Uni. They are lucky if they can get a pupil into a former poly for HE.

That sort of school should be providing some Oxbridge candidates. (Yes, I know I'll get told that Oxbridge shouldn't be used as a perofrmnace indicator). The fact that they are not speaks volumes.

I look at all this from a customer perspective where my children and I are the customers. If I could have afforded to shop elsewhere I would have.

LadyMetroland · 04/02/2014 00:13

Have to say, I think some of what Gove says is interesting

But unfortunately he comes across as so slimy it's difficult to listen to him

Being utterly loathed by the teaching profession is par for the course for a Tory education secretary though isn't it? The key question is what do the wider public think of him, and what do his own party members think of him? It'll be interesting to see what happens to him in the next few years.

claw2 · 04/02/2014 00:18

He does say "I am open to arguments about how we can improve performance – and assessment"

I would be interested to hear what the teaching profession think?

soul2000 · 04/02/2014 00:21

well I have been a member of the conservative party for 22 Years, and I think he is a disaster. The only saving grace though is Balls /Miliband and Tristan Hunt are 100 times worse.

wetaugust · 04/02/2014 00:30

Yes, I have a problem with the man's presentation, but cannot disagree with his aims.

Peter Lilley said on the radio news this evening that he'd had many approaches from the main teaching unions over the years but not once did they suggest raising standards.

I can see why Gove is making theese suggestions. He considers state education to need improvment. He looks back to the eduaction that he had and thinks 'It worked for me - that's what needs to be done'. So that's what he's trying to do, reintroduce the standards of the 70s.

So the argument boils down to do you want to a) study in quiet classrooms, undisturbed by anti-social pupils, with lots of extra-curricular activities while being terrified of those who are teaching you or b) do you want to try to learn in a classroom where your learning is disturbed by anti-social behaviour, where school finishes at 2.30 in the afternoon (as our local bog standard comp does) and where those that teach you think you're their best mate?

I think Gove has opted for A.

wetaugust · 04/02/2014 00:34

well I have been a member of the conservative party for 22 Years, and I think he is a disaster. The only saving grace though is Balls /Miliband and Tristan Hunt are 100 times worse.

Spot on. Personally, he is a disaster. His message though is very appealing. He can't bring back grammar schools so he's going to treat every school like a grammar school. That's how I'm reading the policy.
And if that increases opportunities for state sector pupils that has to be a good thing because this country is getting very dangerously out of balance where the privately educated are leaving very slim pickings for those who were not.

GiraffesAndButterflies · 04/02/2014 02:02

I am open to arguments about how we can improve performance – and assessment

I'm not a teacher but I do work in education.

Late 2012 there was a consultation on A levels. General consensus from universities, employers and teachers was that AS levels are useful and worth keeping. He scrapped them because he doesn't like a modular system. One example of him not being open to argument.

wetaugust I agree that trying to raise standards is a good thing. But he is not doing anything which is likely to achieve this. His useless, counterproductive policies are completely at odds with his overall decent aim. As you say, he is simply thinking 'well this worked for me ergo it must be right'. Which is utterly spurious- just because it worked for him does not mean it is a sensible policy for the nation.

He's actually stated deliberately that he wants to return to an education system similar to his childhood O levels one. Question, Mr Gove: if this was such a fantastically wonderful system, why was it abandoned?