Gove's at it again

[fedup21]

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Education/article1355695.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_12_21

Things like this always get announced on day 2 of the holidays when people think teachers are doing pish all!

Shocking journalism though; does Sian Griffiths really think teachers 'enjoy short working days'? I am in my classroom from 7.45 until 6pm. That's longer 'working' hours than my 'city boy' husband does (though not the 1.5 hour commute) and I work in the evenings and he doesn't!?

No I don't do ,my Dc homework. I would prefer them not to have nay homework, but obviously it is set and they have to do it. They are lucky enough to have a quiet place to work. Perhaps your school is in an affluent area. Mine isn't we have enormous deprivations and chaotic families in the school where I teach, and I know many have no place to do the homework - which is why it would be fairer if all work was done in school. No reason why with a longer day, or more weeks in the year there couldn't be more time for independent study in the school day.

It is naive to assume that children from deprived backgrounds would all benefit. I teach in an area of rural deprivation. There are lots of talented, bright children who are not able to take advantage of the opportunities already available because they are needed at home. Can't be in school play/sports teams/take part in G&T activities because they are responsible for picking up younger siblings from school/babysitting whilst parents go to work etc. The whole "deprived children would all benefit" is a middle-class dream.

does everyone either live in affluent or chaotic and deprived families, then? how interesting.

perhaps those schools serving chaotic and deprived families could be open 12 hours a day, 51 weeks a year. all schools needn't all be.

Children should not be carers and we should not encourage them to be. No-one could survive five minutes in my school and be 'naive' - but nice try anyway.

I'm not saying I agree with it, just that it happens. Your assertion, MrsYoung, that this would be a good way to ensure that kids from chaotic homes got an appropriate place to do homework is hopelessly naive.

BTW, I don't "encourage" it, but I'm not sure how you expect me to DIScourage it. Should I be calling parents and saying "sorry, your DD can't pick up her younger brother on Thursday because I need her in a play rehearsal"?

I obviously don't expect to get agreement for it on here that would be naive, but the desperate attempt to dismiss anything that might help to give better outcomes for deprived children, even if not all of them, all of time is very telling. Poor kids.

How long have you been teaching MrsYoung?

why does it have to be imposed on all children, then? i am not resistant to a longer school day for those pupils who will derive benefit from it.

can anyone clarify how a measure meant to improve outcomes for one (small, in terms of numbers) group of children should be applied to all children, whether they benefit from it, ot no?

poor children, indeed

If it's not compulsory then it will make no difference to the children whose parents already treat them as unpaid childcare. If it is compulsory, it will cause a range of problems in all areas.

Claiming that an extension in school hours will benefit children from chaotic homes is crap. Anyone who's been involved on education longer than 5 minutes knows it.

well exactly. this is politics by soundbite, proper back of a fag packet strategising. really shit. children deserve better.

I also teach many children from what you would consider 'deprived' families. We offer clubs and time after school for children to do homework, work in peace, have support, have a snack and a drink before going home. I don't see how adding weeks to the school year is particularly going to help with this? The children I teach are exhausted at the end of a very long term and they need the break and downtime.

If the reasoning behind this is based on educational research, with proper thought through proposals to how it will be funded, how it will be staffed etc... then that would be a talking point. If it is just for free childcare, as it seems it is, then again fine providing that teachers aren't the ones expected to become childminders in this extra time.

A huge number of new teachers leave the profession in under five years. I would be most surprised to find a sudden uptake of excellent teachers able to work under the intensity that we currently work for 39 weeks of the year for 48 weeks instead.

We do fund before and after school provision for our vulnerable children who often come from chaotic or neglectful homes and amongst other things it has had an impact on our results , exclusions and NEET rate. We also send students to summer schools and clubs . It is difficult to unpick exactly what is having the impact but I think it is a factor. It is costly but we direct PTA funding and pupil premium money in that direction.

The problem is usually getting the correct children to access the provision, these are normally the hardest to reach children who have poor attendance for the normal school hours, never mind any hours in addition to that.

Absolutely Philo - I think that's why any argument that this new thing is a way to advantage kids from chaotic homes is misguided.

I do think extra provision can help disadvantaged children, but it can't be compulsory or it will damage the relationships I have built with families. It has to be done with sensitivity and individual knowledge of the families involved . It can't be a huge sweeping scheme, it is also expensive .

Gove's enthusiasm for year-round education is so very weird when Gove himself comes from a private education that (I think?) he lauds as excellent, but had longer days but shorter terms / longer holidays than the state sector.

Don't pupils & parents clean the schools in Japan, and do building maintenance? Maybe that's the secret to their success. Worth a try.

What parents seem to want is optional, reasonably priced childcare for when they work.

This is not compatible with compulsory full-time education for children run by teachers as far as I can see.

I agree fedup.

So, BranchingOut, what job have you moved into? I'm always curious where teacher's find a new career! (Just in case I decide to move on...)

Pupils in Japan clean the school. Not parents though.

teachers not teacher's

I'd like to see Michael Gove's kids scrubbing toilets. Japanese style and all that.

Parents in Japan-Korea-Hong Kong-Singapore have so much faith in their state schools that it is almost universal that they send their kids to Hagwon (crammers) 6 days a week, at least in teen years if not before. I bet those parents look at countries like Britain and think "Wow! Isn't it amazing that their children come out so well with so little teaching & study time? Their schools must be terrific!"

How long is it until the next election? Fingers crossed Gove won't be around for too much longer....!