Discussion about Charles Spencer's book - Swan Song : Diana, my sister , Beautiful, Beloved, Hunted.

[BasiliskStare]

I know there is a thread about the theft of some pre publication editions of this book.
This thread is more by way of a book club discussion about the actual book , the text. Threads will go where they will , but my intention is this is more for me to give my opinion on the book and for others who read it or are interested in the book to join in. I have pre-ordered from Kindle (half price otherwise I may not have 😊) But is only available on September 22nd. So a holding place if you like.

People always talk about the 'necessity for Diana to be a virgin'. One of the aspects of that was that she wouldn't have a possible non-virgin past ( see Camilla Shand and possibly Koo Stark) and so newspapers wouldn't be able to go raking up the old boyfriends to see what they said. I know Koo Stark wasn't Charles's girlfriend but I think at the time her past was something which was speculated about and I only use her as an example. Yes, I know Sarah Ferguson had 'lived with' someone but she wasn't expected to give birth to the heir to the throne.

I think AMW had to give up Koo Stark because of the film she had been in.
Narrow escape.

My bad, this was three months pre engagement not wedding. Still hurtful & wrong if accurate.

He does reference the Sunday Mirror article in Nov 1980. He explains the outrage was the Prince used a publicly funded vehicle for a lover’s tryst & a policeman had noted when train pulled up to sidings in Wiltshire.

I remember that incident, and I don't think they were engaged yet. I sah this because she reported to the press that she wasn't, 'that sort of girl'. The press made a hullabaloo about it.

It was just a week before they got engaged.

The palace strongly denied it at the time but the Mirror stuck to the story that they’d been given the detail by a policeman.

The palace denial was likely a three-way thing - protecting Charles’ reputation but also protecting Diana’s reputation as it made quite the stir and also a security thing as the locations that the royal train stopped overnight were always very carefully guarded given the IRA threat at the time.

It was a week before they got engaged.

I assume this is the story that gave The Crown their plot of his parents telling Charles he either had to marry her or walk away before he damaged her reputation.

No, it was in November 1980, C&D were engaged in February 1981.

Thanks. It sounds like there was some substance to it then (?)

CS says “Diana was presented by the Press globally as the Prince’s blushing fiance in February 1981”.

I thought that in real life, not in The Crown, there was so much chasing of Prince Charles's new girlfriend, including the see-through skirt photo at the nursery, that Prince Philip did tell him to either get engaged or end it, so as to save her the daily harassment.

Edit to add that I think we'd seen something of Di in the newspapers before the engagement.

Yes, that's what happened in real life, she was absolutely hounded and - as I understand it - Prince Philip urged Charles to propose.

Prince Charles was harassed by the papers every time he looked at a young woman.

I’d love to get Diana’s sisters’ take on the book.
Both Jane and Sarah have always been so discreet. As have their husbands and children.

No he wasn't. He was styled as a playboy and saw ma y different women.

I don't think I knew anything about the Spencers until the prince became engaged to Lady Diana Spencer. If I lived in Northants maybe I would have.
If you had said the name Spencer-Churchill to me I'd have said, " Oh, something to do with Winston Churchill." I think there was a link but off-hand I don't know it.

John Churchill 1st Duke of Marlborough had daughters but no surviving son so the dukedom passed via the female line into the Spencer family. Later that branch of the Spencers adopted the name Spencer-Churchill or just Churchill.

The Spencer estates - Wormleighton, Althorp - passed to a younger Spencer son, and the Spencer earldom was created in the 18th century.

Now the Spencer-Churchills and the Spencers are only distantly related but it's interesting that the red hair appears in both - Winston and at least one of his daughters had red hair.

Just been listening to it in the car. It was the chapter covering her burial arrangements.

I’ll admit I’ve always thought the island grave was a porky; a story invented to keep the ghouls/fanatics away from the village church and family crypt where Diana was actually placed. But no. She is indeed on the island and he goes into quite fascinating detail about the requirements and processes involved to enable this.

I’m thoroughly enjoying it.

Doesn't his voice jar a bit if listening on audiobook?

What do you mean about detail about requirements and processes involved? Honestly has he no idea what the word privacy and dignity means.

As many have said , I think no-one will ever know the truth when it comes down to " this is my remembering" and others disagree. I think CS probably has some salient points to make in his book , but he's somewhat messed up a bit with the things he didn't check which cast doubt.

Today I have been listening to a podcast someone recommended on one of the threads, CS talking to Gyles Brandreth. Not a huge fan of Gyles either and there are annoying musical interludes.

However overall I’ve found it very interesting, there are features of parental/societal attitudes that I recognise and which explain a lot. His discussion of the terrible time he had at that dreadful prep school is really upsetting to listen to - not just his own experience but all the other little boys that were packed off to that dreadful place. It really was a very bleak childhood and for Diana as well.

But on the issue of varied recollections I found myself questioning his very first memory at age about two right at the start. He said he remembered being in the pram in the nursery with his father taking pictures of him. There are pictures of Diana in the pram but I couldn’t find any of CS though no doubt there are pictures in the family album of him in the pram. What I question is that this took place in the nursery. The nursery would probably have been on the top floor, how on earth would the nanny have wrangled that big silver cross coach pram upstairs? Or even a footman? Surely it would have been parked in one of the utility back rooms on the ground floor after daily outings. So pictures possibly outside or possibly his father had the nanny bring the pram through to one of the downstairs rooms for the photo session.

It’s a very small detail and obviously he was very young. It’s just that one should beware of insisting memories are 100% accurate. I think some of my childhood memories are not memories at all but family lore converted into my memory of particular incidents. And DD1 insists she remembers wearing glasses for a while, connected to an eye problem she had for a year or two. But treatment did NOT involve glasses. She absolutely didn’t ever wear glasses but she insists she remembers doing so! 🤦‍♀️

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/rosebud-with-gyles-brandreth/id1704806594?i=1000733241848

Spencer himself says he thinks his sisters are hurt by the fact that he wrote this book because he never told them about it and they only found out very late in the process.

"He recalls that when he finally told his sisters, Lady Sarah, 71, and Lady Jane, 69, “I think they were very surprised. They hadn’t seen it coming.” "

"As for his sisters, Spencer admits he believes they are “still digesting” their reactions to the book, despite his assurance that it is a “pure celebration” of Diana.

“I think they were hurt that I hadn’t told them, to be honest,” he confesses. “I said, ‘I was going to hurt you either way, because I was either going to tell you and still write it how I wanted it. It wasn’t going to be a committee effort.’ ”

Such a nice brother to be concerned not to incriminate his sisters!

people.com/charles-spencer-says-told-prince-william-prince-harry-about-princess-diana-memoir-exactly-same-time-exclusive-12131853

True. And every young woman who looked at him.

Why would you think the island burial was a porky?

For her !

... that's my point...

I've seen that claim on here a few times, just another conspiracy theory, I think.

At the time, it was announced that she would be buried on the island.

Yes, however, some people claim that she wasn't buried there. But then some people claim she was murdered or that she wase pregnant by Dodi. Lots of wild claims.