Discussion about Charles Spencer's book - Swan Song : Diana, my sister , Beautiful, Beloved, Hunted.

[BasiliskStare]

I know there is a thread about the theft of some pre publication editions of this book.
This thread is more by way of a book club discussion about the actual book , the text. Threads will go where they will , but my intention is this is more for me to give my opinion on the book and for others who read it or are interested in the book to join in. I have pre-ordered from Kindle (half price otherwise I may not have 😊) But is only available on September 22nd. So a holding place if you like.

Do we believe

1. PC said “whilst he was very happy to marry her he was not actually in love with her” & she went on to recall 29 July 1981 as saddest of life.
2. Her father wouldn’t allow her to pull out.

If the first comment is true it was surely very cruel to tell her so close to wedding?

He pretty much admitted he wasn’t in love during the engagement interview “whatever in love means” so I absolutely do believe that he said this.
I can also well imagine Diana’s father was aghast at the suggestion that she pull out of the wedding so I’m afraid this one’s probably true as well.
Perhaps if Diana had fought harder to be released from the engagement he would’ve supported her but it seems she was conflicted about it herself.

My interpretation of the person who made this comment is that they are conceited. How am I doing?

What it seems PC (as was) didn’t do then is clearly tell her it was only an “arrangement”
early enough? Why break her heart & tell her at all (presumably through guilt?) a day/days before?

Could everything have been avoided if PC had more backbone? Wouldn’t Phillip have married who he wanted in a similar position although obviously not easy? (I think William really learned from this).

If CS is to be believed, such was their father’s stance on duty, obeying/serving crown, I am not sure he’d have ever supported Diana pulling out.

Lighten up and no need to be rude 😊

No, he didn't. Every single day on here....

They were asked if they were in love, and C said "yes, whatever in love means". Diana laughed in agreement.
I don't think it was a great response to a stupid question, but he never said he didn't love her.

Then please can you do it on the other threads instead of the actual thread set up by @BasiliskStareto only discuss Spencer’s book!!
is it really so much to ask that this one thread stay on topic?
is it really to much to ask to respect the ops opening post and request for a thread to discuss the book only?

Anyway. Back to the book. 😂

I’m listening to it on Audible. Only a couple of chapters in so far, but I’m thoroughly enjoying it. He writes, and reads, well. So much so, that I can really picture their childhood home and all that he describes. It’s so other worldly, how the upper classes lived, even in relatively recent times.

People who are in love do not question what “in love” means.

No, I did actually qualify that.
Plus they'd only been out about half a dozen times! I just get very annoyed at the misquote which is every day on here.
Anyway, it was an arranged marriage.

I said I would look again about @Sweetpeasaremadeforbees question about Raine and the stairs. I'm not comfortable typing out the actual paragraphs , pretty sure that would be against copyright. Also my Kindle search skills failed me , had to do it Old School by tapping frenetically through the book 😊

This episode , in the book , comes after Raine making what sounds like an unkind comment about D and feeling sorry for the PoW marrying someone "stupid"

As CS writes it D was surprised by the "spite" and shoved her down the (carpeted) staircase. According to CS R "landed flush on her buttocks" and walked away. According to CS this was 1989 , the day before his first marriage.

Thank you @jeffgoldblum and @bluegreygreen and @simpsonthecat for trying to keep the thread on track.

@bluegreygreen and @simpsonthecat - I think accounts of the book are interesting for the discussion , so thank you - no "must do better " end of thread reports from me. 💐

I know that threads gain a life of their own and they meander , and that is often interesting or funny. Personally , I think talk of AMW and VG whilst very worthy of discussion there are other threads , as for the RF's relationship with the press generally. BUT I have no intention of policing what people can post on a public forum. Just that I , myself, will engage more with those who are discussing the book and matters arising. Anyway too many to mention but thank you to all who have posted in that spirit or linked to things 👏

It seems Diana didn’t have (?) or understand (?) that memo until a few days before the wedding?

Of course she understood it. She wasn't stupid.
Her mother was married at 18 to the 30 year old Johnny Spencer. Her grandmother married a man 17 years her senior. Her sister Jane married the late Queen's private secretary when she was 21 and he was 37.
Diana grew up on the Sandringham estate. Her father had been an equerry to George VI and QEII. Her grandmother was a close personal friend of the QM
She was friends with the royal children. She was basically brought up to have a good marriage.
No doubt she would have been told that love would come.
She wasn't some 19 year old off the street.

It’s interesting that he says that Raine landed on her backside. That maybe suggests that it was not the full length of the staircase which seems possible in view of the fact that Raine wasn’t seriously injured. Those staircases are enormous, carpet or no carpet That’s not to say she couldn’t have been injured in even a relatively small fall of course but perhaps less likely

No, but if we believe CS the saddest & worst day of her life was 19th July 1981 when she realised she wasn’t marrying for love & there was total asymmetry on this front.
He told her a few days before he didn’t love her & she was absolutely bereft. This says she hadn’t grasped this memo. At all.

It’s possible to understand & internalise all you describe & hope & imagine the fairytale playing out as per her favourite Barbara Cartland Mills & Boon type books. She didn’t have Princess Anne type sensibilities.

I think those are fair points, however, others tell a different story. The Emmanuels say that she was excited and happy about every dress fitting, and couldn't contain her happiness. Look at her on the day, she looks so happy, she's glowing!
Anyway, it's horrible the way that things went, and she met a tragic end.

Absolutely. She likely hoped he’d fall deeply in love with her in time. If more experienced she’d have realised it rarely, if ever, works that way. Especially as they fundamentally unsuited & had little common ground.

I agree, she was led into it and her family didn't support her, even when she had wobbles.
If you look at pictures of them early in the marriage, they do seem affectionate and caring, so I hope she at least got a short window of happiness.

Agree, & I think she said there were some initial happy times, but unfortunately the writing on the wall a bit even on honeymoon.

A question I have is should PC have spelled out it was essentially an arranged marriage, not a love match, much earlier? Why drop this bombshell, & it was a bombshell if we believe CS, shortly before the wedding?

“Landed flush on her buttocks” was oddly specific to me. The whole bit about her pushing Raine read weirdly to me.

Almost as if the story was “look at what my outrageous sister did at my wedding rehearsal” rather than any part of Diana’s story.

Everyone knew she’d pushed Raine down the stairs, that’s been known for years, but I don’t think many folks realised she was POW at the time she did it. A fully grown adult and mother of two children.

He has said he wanted his book to fix untruths about Diana and it seemed he wanted to fix bad publicity about her (that he blames the RF for) yet one of the biggest revelations in the book about her (if not the biggest one about her)is this.

I think another question around that would be when did he realise that she didn’t know that.

She did grow up around Sandringham and her Granny was close with his Granny etc etc.

Would he have genuinely realised in the few times they met before the married that she didn’t see the arrangement the same as him? I’m not so sure, in large part because he’d spent his whole life with people being taught the etiquette and rules - he’s never had to teach anyone them. I doubt he’d have had the understanding of people to realise super quickly that she was hoping this would turn into a proper love marriage.

Yes, it's sad. I'm surprised she felt mislead, but I suppose even though she understood the deal, it probably hurt.

That’s an interesting point. What do others think? If he hadn’t cottoned on was it appropriate to say he didn’t love her, so late on, when it dawned?

Did they ever socialise with any of his friends? They, if not he, may have noticed? If we believe the stories, he and Camilla were setting her up to be the unknowing, sacrificial lamb/brood mare.

I don't think they were, he'd ended it with Camilla. I think they both tried to make a go of it, and they were happy in the early days.

At the risk of derailing my own thread ( and give me a by on this - there is another thread on MN under "Films" where people can post to their heart's content )

Here is a very unsophisticated review of CS's book ( & I'm rather being lighthearted here - I am enjoying the comments about the books ) It was £13.99 on Kindle. I also went with DH to a matinee ( over 60s so reduced price ) to see "Pressure" with Andrew Scott. I think the prices were very similar. In hindsight if I only had one £13 to spend the film would have won out 😂 As it happens I'm lucky enough to do both. But just a laugh I hope as a bit of light relief from more serious commentary.