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The royal family

Debating the monarchy's relevance, reform and public accountability in modern Britain

138 replies

LipglossAndLies · 07/08/2026 08:55

Welcome to this thread! 👋 I am hoping it provides a dedicated space to discuss and debate the relevance, utility, and future of the institution of monarchy in modern times.

To help make this a welcoming space for genuine discussion, I would like to encourage everyone to follow a few simple guidelines:

💬 Respectful Challenge, Not Nastiness: let's keep the focus entirely on the ideas, not the people posting them.

👀 Focus on the roles, not the people: This thread is about governance, constitutional law, economics, and the function of a head of state. I think it would help to use the official roles and not personal names to keep the conversation completely agnostic.

🙏 Gossip free: Please avoid discussing personal family drama, media feuds, or the private lives of individual family members. There are plenty of other threads for that!

💁‍♀️ Report or ignore: If you feel someone is not commenting in good faith, or is trying to provoke a hostile reaction as it will help keep the conversation on track.

To kick off the debate, for me I would think its time for significant structural reform. Recent years have highlighted major blind spots in how official state roles such as official trade or investment envoy appointments are handed out, funded, and scrutinised by the public. When individuals holding these titles face serious scrutiny over their expenses, or how they utilise state-backed influence, it reflects heavily on the entire institution.

If the monarchy is to survive in modern times, it needs to move past a culture of internal deference and accept rigorous financial oversight, auditing, and transparency as any other government body receiving taxpayers money.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · 07/08/2026 21:38

ilostmyheid · 07/08/2026 21:08

What is a gooden?

a good and interesting thread

ilostmyheid · 07/08/2026 21:46

Oh a goodun - got you.

adragoncalledaudrey · 07/08/2026 22:12

I wonder if the same courtesy would be returned regarding financial information.

Some would not and I understand.

”As Republic operates as a private advocacy organisation and limited company rather than a major publicly listed corporation or high-level government body, specific executive compensation figures for its staff are not legally required to be itemized in standard public filings in a way that reveals his personal pay.”

I am all for transparency if every one is. My salary band is out there for all to see. A nosy neighbour took note of all the days I worked and pretty much worked out what my take home pay was almost to the penny.

They reckoned they were entitled to know as they ‘pay’ for me too.

I cared more that they were watching me so intently and I wasn’t aware. The money was less troubling!

The Royals can keep their royalling!

parallhel · 08/08/2026 11:03

bluegreygreen · 07/08/2026 21:17

Significant assets can also be left via trusts, and as I understand it trust distribution information is private.

Appointments from a trust can be private, however AFAIK the objects (potential beneficiaries) of the trust must be named or itemised in the will trust document.

OliveMyLove · 08/08/2026 12:33

LipglossAndLies · 07/08/2026 11:01

Im not going to police this rigidly I just hope people understand my point is not to get into William doesn't do engagemrnts he is lazy. Instead as best possible lets talk about what acitivites should a King, the heir, the spare do (if at all). Because the actual person in that role does change.

I don't think it will be possible to completely avoid it but best endeavours 😁

Why would you post a list of rules then immediately break them yourself by disparaging a specific member of the Royal family?

It’s not against talk guidelines but obviously not in good faith.

OneFancyBird · 16/08/2026 15:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OliveMyLove · 16/08/2026 15:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@LipglossAndLies Provided rules for this thread that you may want to peruse before posting. 🤷‍♀️

adragoncalledaudrey · 16/08/2026 16:04

I’m sure @LipglossAndLies will be calling it out soon.

Hypocritical not to I should think.

CathyorClaire · 16/08/2026 20:25

simpsonthecat · 16/08/2026 10:59

To revive this thread.... it looks like Charles & William may have to step up as landlords.
Damning reports about their Duchy rental properties.
Who will pay for this I wonder...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/aug/16/king-charles-and-prince-william-face-10m-energy-upgrade-bill-for-estates

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/aug/15/royal-estates-rent-out-homes-that-fail-to-meet-legal-energy-efficiency-standards

Astonishing that W's PR has been trumpeting the waiving of grass roots rents to the stonking amount of £10k a year and the recent waiving of future income from the unusable prison (no mention of a rebate on the £4.5m already trousered) while letting this scandal rumble on. TBF though no squeak of C doing anything close.

However I'm quite sure both will find a way to defray any costs onto the shoulders of the taxpayer others.

LifeIsTooShort247 · 11/10/2026 09:43

Seems the right thread to post here this: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/royal-family-peer-attack-cost-37740852

Glad to see someone in politics challenging the amount of money they receive..

"A Labour peer will launch a blistering attack on the Royals this week as he calls for the King's public funding to be slashed. Former Cabinet member Lord George Foulkes will argue the public is not getting value for the £100million it is set to hand over next year. He told The Mirror he was incensed by the monarch's use of private jets and helicopters and questioned why the family needs so many homes while making public statements on homelessness.

The former Scotland Secretary will tell peers: "When we ask the public to fund an institution to the tune of over just under £100 million a year through the Sovereign Grant, at a time when many are facing severe pressure on their household budgets, we have a duty to ask two fundamental questions - are we getting value for money, and do the actions of this institution match the values it preaches?"

Ouch but he isn't wrong, is this why we are suddenly seeing more engagements from certain Royal family members. Maybe just a conincidence but glad to see its being raised in parliament.

Labour peer launches blistering attack on royals over £100m grant from taxpayers

EXCLUSIVE: This week former Cabinet minister Lord George Foulkes will tell the House of Lords the royal family do not offer value for money as he criticises the £100m Sovereign Grant

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/royal-family-peer-attack-cost-37740852

parallhel · 11/10/2026 11:29

He is quite right to question it, and it is timely given the COL issues facing the peasants these days who part fund it. He is brave to put his head above the parapet, and it will be interesting to see if anyone else has the cojones to join him, or will the rest of them just ignore it, sycophantic fashion?

Unfortunately I reckon the latter. But it might get a debate going just the same.

LifeIsTooShort247 · 11/10/2026 11:33

parallhel · 11/10/2026 11:29

He is quite right to question it, and it is timely given the COL issues facing the peasants these days who part fund it. He is brave to put his head above the parapet, and it will be interesting to see if anyone else has the cojones to join him, or will the rest of them just ignore it, sycophantic fashion?

Unfortunately I reckon the latter. But it might get a debate going just the same.

I do think its everyone in it together and the Royal Family should be looking to reduce their costs too. Particulary since they are so keen to tell us we are just like them, well manage you r budget better because we are all having to make sacrifices.

ilostmyheid · 11/10/2026 11:59

Do they tell us they are just like us ? Isn't that Andy Buttham's job?

bluegreygreen · 11/10/2026 14:44

The Sovereign Grant Bill, which will become the Sovereign Grant Act 2026, is a Money Bill.
This means that under the Parliament Act 1911, once it is passed by the Commons, it will become law after one month, with or without the approval of the House of Lords.
Hansard Money bill
Gov.uk Money bill

The usual procedure is that all stages in the House of Lords take place within one day, which for this Bill is due to occur on Wednesday 14th October.

The page detailing the stages of the bill is here
Sovereign Grant Bill

There is a link (Get file) which allows anyone who wishes to download and read the text of the bill.

It's interesting that Lord Foulkes has decided to tell the Mirror (in an 'Exclusive') that he plans to oppose the Bill.
It's hardly surprising, or news, given that as an MP from 1979 to 2005, he consistently argued and voted against the civil list.

What is annoying, apart from the glaring factual inaccuracy in the story, is that they have missed the most interesting part: that this Sovereign Grant Bill adjusts a problem with the original.
It places a duty on the Treasury to adjust the amount of the Sovereign Grant, including to reduce it where the Royal Trustees thinks the standard calculation results in an amount which is too great, and to state 'an appropriate amount for the relevant financial year'.

CathyorClaire · 11/10/2026 21:23

Looks to me like this is basically the always anticipated reset allowing a correction to and consequential reduction of the trumped up and waved through by a naïve May government BP repair bill which had previously been deemed to be met well within existing SG provision.

The heavily reduced royal 'workforce' with an heir focused on the promotion of personal projects is still set to score just under £100m. 65% higher than ten years ago.

I hope this chap succeeds in stirring the pot but it's very hard to see high level political intent to interfere here.

BasiliskStare · 13/10/2026 20:29

Here's my two penny'orth. There is one ( to me ) absolutely over riding and indisputable argument against a Constitutional Monarchy, No other arguments (imho) are needed . That is no-one should be in a position of national influence purely because of the family they were born into, in a democracy.

That said I am in favour of our Constitutional Monarchy. Hypocrite lecteur - ( me not any of you ) . & that is because I am also a pragmatist. I can't see at the moment a better option. I welcome all scrutiny of royal finances & thank you @bluegreygreen for those references.

@CathyorClaire I do somewhat share yours and other's frustrations. Eg I would love to see the Monarch to monarch no IHT be rigorously scrutinised.

So to some extent my position is indefensible. I know that. However , having a HoS with longevity does somewhat help us on both a domestic and a world stage ( I think) . The trick is to balance accountability and usefulness.

No one need reply to say my opinion is somewhat indefensible - I know that. 😊 But it's mine. I do get why people would like us to be a republic , there are compelling arguments as I have said above , it's just not my choice.

wordler · 13/10/2026 22:33

@BasiliskStare

I'm pretty much the same opinion as you. It makes no sense in a modern world to have hereditary positions of national influence.

If I could feel positive about an elected head of state I would be fine about becoming a republic.

And even without a positive alternative if we were faced with the prospect of an Andrew, or Harry, or either of the York sisters I would be right there at the barricades with Republic.

And I strongly think the head of state role should be a streamlined monarch, heir and their spouses. No need for siblings or cousins to be full time working royals. If they want to turn up to support the monarch for big events on their own dime then that's fine.

The one advantage of the hereditary situation is the chance for the heir to 'train' up to the job. It's one of the reasons that an elected head of state will end up nearly always being a former politician because the skills needed for the foreign diplomacy, leading national events etc is hard if it's not something you are used to doing. And the problem with getting a former politician is that no matter what you say they have a lifetime of partisan politics behind them and that makes it difficult to see them as a politically neutral head of state.

Nono22972 · 13/10/2026 22:48

I was actually debating about the future of the monarchy with my father yesterday.

I'm sort of neutral. I'm not a die hard monarchist but I'm not a die hard republican either.

People often say that the scandals (Andrew, H&M) are the biggest threat to the monarchy today but I disagree.

I actually think the biggest threat to the monarchy is its growing irrelevance and the way the younger royals seem to be approaching their roles.

Let me explain.

The monarchy has survived plenty of scandals before. The 90s are a good example. As damaging as some of the recent scandals have been, I don't think they're necessarily what will bring the institution down. What I see is people simply becoming more and more indifferent to it.

One thing I've noticed is the difference between the older and younger generations of working royals.

The late Queen, Princess Anne, the Gloucesters, the Kents and others have followed a more traditional approach to royal duty. They attend hundreds of engagements yearly, support countless charities, visit hospitals, schools, organisations, and constantly make themselves available to the public.

Most of their work barely makes the news, which is unfortunate because I think that's where much of the monarchy's value lies.

The Queen famously said that she had to be seen to be believed, and I think she had a point. A royal visit might seem meaningless to some people, but for a small charity, that spotlight can mean a great deal.

The younger generation (basically the Waleses) have a totally different approach.
Less engagement and more focus on long term project.

While I understand their approach, I struggle with it a little bit

Because that'd mean that a lot of these small charities would stop benefitting from royal attention.

Also, many of the older working royals are old or getting a lot older. Princess Anne, the Gloucesters and the Duke of Kent cannot continue indefinitely. We don't know how much time the King still has. Who is going to take over all of their responsibilities?

I also think the Waleses have issues connecting with the younger generation, my generation.

They have their fans and I know they do some charitable work but I find their public image to be too polished, too perfect, very managed to the point where I, and I'm sure many, struggle to connect to them.

We hear so much about their appearances at sporting events, their clothes, their family image but very little about the actual results of their charitable work.

And before anyone brings up Catherine's illness, because I know someone will, I'm not referring to her treatment or recovery. The discussion about their limited work is years old.

Sometimes, I feel like the younger royals are becoming more celebrities than public servants. I'm not saying they can't go to games or go to Wimbledon but I think their public profile has become much more about their image than their work.

Another issue is that a lot of people loved, ,or at the very least, respected the late Queen. She was the only monarch most of us ever knew.
Unfortunately for the other royals, that respect is not hereditary. It cannot be passed down from one monarch to the next.

Also, I just think most people don't see the point in having a monarchy anymore.

What does it contribute to society, beyond the ceremonies, the traditions and the occasional major royal event?

I keep hearing that William will modernize the monarchy but what does it actually mean?

Does it just mean fewer engagements?

I think my generation enjoy following royal news, weddings, fashion or family drama, but don't feel any attachment to the institution itself.

And I think the Palace amd monarchists don't realise that

Scandals come and go. Public indifference is much harder to reverse.

More and more people stopped seeing the point of having a monarchy, no amount of good PR or carefully staged appearances will be enough to change that.

simpsonthecat · 14/10/2026 07:34

I agree with so much of the last three posts, thank you.

Unless there was a viable alternative to what we have, nothing will change, and as it is such a difficult subject for anyone to discuss in the political arena, it just won't happen. So we are stuck with what we have and I agree it needs to be drastically streamlined. I have always said I do not want to see anyone but king, queen, and heir. I don't want to see any of the wider family and I think they should be financing themselves doing their own thing. How much more rounded William and George would be if they had careers of some sort.

I agree the Wales are more celebrity than monarchy. I don't particularly care to see them at all but those that do seem to just focus on what they look like what they are wearing, how wonderful their body language is.....rather than what they are actually doing.

It will never be like it was before, when the older generation of Royals shook hands and cut ribbons. Times have changed and I honestly think people don't care any more and that indifference will just increase.

If we didn't see any Royals for a year, nothing would change, we will survive, just have the Monarch quietly sign what papers he needs to, whilst Government tackles the bloated payout of sovereign grant, duchies and security costs. Sadly there won't be change in my lifetime. I am sure each government thinks "phew we managed to get away with our tenure without having to discuss the monarchy"

Excuse the ramblings I have a head cold

BunnyBunbunbun · 14/10/2026 11:13

YouSawBrigadoon · 07/08/2026 12:30

My opinion - I think the British monarchy is an outdated institution that has no convincing place in a modern, democratic UK. It rests on inherited status and privilege rather than merit, achievement or democracy. I don’t believe anyone should be treated as inherently deserving of deference simply because of the family they were born into.
It offers nothing of value to society other than highlighting a deeply unequal system of inherited wealth and privilege. I don’t think its traditional status should automatically command respect, and I certainly don’t think ordinary people have any obligation to defer to members of the royal family.

Respect should be earned through someone’s actions and character, not inherited through a title. For me, that is one of the clearest reasons why the monarchy feels increasingly out of step with a modern Britain.

I always find this a funny claim, because some of the most advanced, democratic, merit-based, socially progressive and socially cohesive societies in the world, which also lack significant political polarisation, are constitutional monarchies.

fando · 14/10/2026 13:35

@Nono22972great post

LipglossAndLies · 14/10/2026 15:57

Its unfortunate the King couldn't have showed the country it is the head of how they are here for the good of the people by paying to remove the rubbish on the land they inherited. Afterall they have the money to do so. Would've showed us that they want the best for the people of the country they preside over.

Unfortunately they just displayed the same selfish behavior we see alot more of in society now, someone else's problem why go out of the way to help out if you have the means and ability to do so.

OP posts:
BemusedAmerican · 14/10/2026 16:13

I think that William's Homeward project is working. In five year the results will be significant.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/news/new-research-for-prince-williams-homewards-programme-on-preventing-family-homelessness

We gave a billion dollars to the wife of a former NYC mayor to work on the NYC mental health crisis with no tangible results. Homeward is showing results. You just have to search for them.

I also remember reading on a previous thread that the Duchy of Cornwall estate managers were working on making the properties compliant by the deadline

Here in the US, I have to attend monthly recaps of Landmark committee meetings. If you are working with landmarked property, there are an enormous amount of restrictions to deal with. Renovation can be expensive and time consuming. You need permission. I've seen them make people rip out their windows because they felt the windows were out of place. I suspect it's just as bad with your listed properties. Wait until the deadline is up before you criticize.

Baby's hand in the overlaid palms of two adults

New research | Helping Prince William's Homewards charity

New research | Helping Prince William’s Homewards programme identify a blueprint for preventing family homelessness — with trusted relationships, practical support and safe, connected communities at its heart.

https://www.lse.ac.uk/news/new-research-for-prince-williams-homewards-programme-on-preventing-family-homelessness

CathyorClaire · 14/10/2026 20:25

Homeward is showing results. You just have to search for them.

Homeward though appears to be some sort of collaborative platform of partnerships much like Earthshot?

Please can you link to the results you've found?

TIA

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