I have pre-ordered Andrew Lownie's Book (out I think 14th August) A thread for those interested in "Entitled"

[BasiliskStare]

So for those interested in this book about the Yorks. I will read it and interested to hear from others who have or to give an opinion.

No spitting , no gouging 😂

You and he may well be right.

I'm a little sceptical but GM could say if it were true but I think she isn't speaking of PA - so whose evidence do we have ? VG - who sadly can't provide it.
Look I don't know , but I am minded to believe the people who looked at the back of the "snap" just at the moment Nathan than PA who is one of those in the category of , if he told me it was raining I'd look out of the window. He can't sweat. Hmmmnnnn .

I believe that Andrew can’t recall Virginia. I suspect that as a PP said, she was one in a succession of interchangeable and unimportant young women as far as he was concerned. I’d have been surprised had he remembered her tbh. He probably raped a great many women and girls, in addition to the consensual no-strings sex he was no doubt having.

I also believe that the old queen was in it up to her neck. Of course she knew why she was paying off Virginia! Only her most naive fans (like those harmless oddballs who’d drive for miles to watch her walk into church on Christmas Day) truly think that she was ignorant of the facts.

I think it’s important to be careful about using the word rape. VG consented. She may have been vulnerable and open to being abused, but it wasn’t rape. In the same way that using prostitutes isn’t rape. It’s morally wrong and unpleasant , but it’s not rape.

Absolute delusional nonsense.

QE2, RF and PA have never admitted to any ‘sins’.

The Head of The Church of England stumped up the £13 000 000 from the hard sweat of taxpayers to pay off VG and cover up for her son.

Totally agree. I think, re Andrew, QEII was very much both a mother and a Christian so she thought "hate the sin, love the sinner".
Whereas KCIII is a Christian but only a brother so it's "hate the sin, tolerate the sinner for the sake of his wider family".
Possibly William will reach the point of not giving a flying wotsit about the Sinner 🤷‍♀️

It’s a Christian viewpoint @Madchest no need to be so rude about it, especially as I said, I can see why others don’t see it that way.

It was rape. Virginia was below the age of consent and she was trafficked. She had to obey Epstein.

She wasn't a prostitute who agreed to the job, she was underage and a trafficked sex slave.

Tell me what’s ’Christian’ about the Head of the Church of England buying the silence of a sex trafficked teenager for £13million with tax payers money - to continue to be complicit hiding the actions of her sex offender son.

QE2 said nothing of the sort that her son was a sinner - I would have respected her if she did - your comment is a made up delusional fantasy in your own head.

Not one of them have come out to say he has sinned and they oppose it. They have all kept silent for decades which is compliant. Their main concern when his most recent sex offences broke was to consider how it would impact on The Firm and get into damage limitation mode for their own ends - not for the victims or any sense of morality.

Don’t be so rude @Madchest
if you don’t like my viewpoint that’s fine, I respect that, but to call me delusional is not on.

I’ll not engage with you again. I don’t think I’ve ever said that before.

What shit. Why are you minimising?

She was a sex trafficked teenager, groomed and coerced. Her ‘consent’ was not consensual.

Why did QE2 pay £13million hush money if it was consensual?

Why have the US sought to interview Andrew?

Of course it’s delusional - to have constructed in your mind a total fantasy of a conversation between QE2 and PA about sinners, contrition, redemption etc when there is ZERO evidence of this and only actions by both to the opposite - total and continued denial by PA and hush money by QE2. Maybe this sordid behaviour by QE2 the enabler is too much for you to deal with so you have to construct some delusional fantasy.

It’s in mine. I can’t nearly always get what I want from the library.

Because it’s all so sleazy and sordid. Because he was friends with someone who trafficked teenage girls.

I think what we have here is the classic 'never explain, never complain'. This does not always work for them. They are governed by the media in that it all depends what is reported on.

So, they make no comment, and we have to draw our own conclusions about what we are fed in the media. QE2 accompanies Andrew to church, and goes out riding with him in Windsor park days after the car crash interview, we have to assume she is supporting him, it cannot be that she is thinking he's a sinner because any normal person would hide away and NOT be seen out and about with him.

It is like the messages they give out by Charles wearing a particular tie or QE2 with some brooch or other. Every time you are seen you are giving out some sort of message and the public will pick up on that. Be seen with your son straight after the most appalling interview justifying a relationship with a sex trafficker and you will be judged by the public

I think what people overlook is that the Queen was a woman of her generation. She only had one partner who wasn’t by accounts faithful himself. She lived a very protected, elitist and privileged life. Men did what they did and the women turned a blind eye. Male and female roles very stereotyped. How could she be expected to understand the world in which Epstein operated? Or the kind of man Andrew really was? I doubt she knew very much and probably didn’t want to know more because she simply couldn’t cope or understand the information.

While at the same time being so sharp and well informed that successive Prime Ministers sought and took her advice on affairs of state? Royalists can’t have it both ways!

Epstein’s crimes had been covered in the global press for decades - of course she knew what was going on - they vet everyone in their circle for security reasons.

She turned a blind eye and/or refused to intervene when she was briefed on PA dodgy financial liaisons and dealings as well as his sex crimes - this enabled his behaviour. As did supporting his attempt to lie by providing a venue for the interview, then remaining silent on his crimes and request to be interviewed in the US - as well as stumping up £13m of taxpayers cash to silence sex trafficked teenage victims alongside putting him front and centre in her public appearances. Enabler. As they all continue to be.

Why did QE2 pay £13million hush money if it was consensual?

That one's easy, @Madchest - to shut the whole thing down, protect the upcoming Jubilee and avoid any chance of Andrew making things even worse by entering a witness box

Though as I said at the time there's no way he'd have been allowed to risk cross examination in a court even if he'd been a modern day Demosthenes; for the institution there'd simply have been too much risk

Edited to mention that we don't actually know how much the payout was, but there's no reason to suppose it would have been cheap

That's pretty good going when the release date is 14th October 😀

This is the woman who kept the sharpest eye on the firm's mainchance for decades and used it to her advantage over and over.

It's highly unlikely she didn't know or understand what was going on.

Well... it appears now she has become a doddery old woman of another generation who barely knew what day of the week it was!

Bit of a contrast to what was spouted for decades when she was alive!

Do you think we should add 'chameleon' to her list of skills?😁

Yes, the old woman was canny enough when she wanted to be. She was in this up to her tits. Disgraceful behaviour.

I’m not going to dignify the heinous “it wasn’t rape” comment with a response. Thankfully it’s not a majority few on this thread.

I’m a few chapters in on Audible. Andrew Lownie’s reading ‘style’ is SO very annoying and distracting. Inflections, syncopations, pronunciations are all over the place.

So far, Andrew is clearly little more than a creepy half-wit and Sarah sounds like a monster.