I have pre-ordered Andrew Lownie's Book (out I think 14th August) A thread for those interested in "Entitled"

[BasiliskStare]

So for those interested in this book about the Yorks. I will read it and interested to hear from others who have or to give an opinion.

No spitting , no gouging 😂

I don’t think it’s been picked up on at all. The grifting has (difficult not to) but nothing I’ve seen about the sexual abuse. And I make no mistake it is sexual abuse. Andrew is an odious adult but he didn’t deserve what happened to him as a child.

Why on earth hasn’t there been an outcry about this? It beggars belief.

I have seen people speculating that the adult concerned- the man who took Andrew and the other boy to the prostitute was a very well known person.
Also I was listening to the journalist Nicky Campbell saying yesterday that he talked explicitly in his autobiography about the abuse he had witnessed and suffered at Edinburgh Academy, expecting it to create a scandal-and it went completely unnoted.

Shocking isn’t it. But I suppose not surprising, just very sad for the children involved. I’m not on SM, unless you count MN, so unless reported in the news I wouldn’t see it.

Maybe other boys (men now obv) will come forward as a result of the book and any alleged criminal who is still alive will be investigated. I still agree with others - it’s absolutely not right to refer to CSA when the victim is still living because it’s something that doesn’t belong in the public domain unless the victim puts it there, as Charles Spencer did - but maybe there’s a silver lining to be had from this inappropriate revelation.

Yes I think of Charles Spencer and the abuse he suffered. I do wonder how the prostitute visit could actually happen given security of Andrew. Surely the person doing this must have had to dodge Andrews security detail

I am still at the early stages of reading the book. I am impressed with the hundreds of people lownie named in acknowledgement, it was page after page. Andrew's childhood was as I imagined, big gap after the first two children and his mother having more time to indulge Andrew and Edward. I do find it bizarre that Edward is a sort of straight type of guy, and doesn't have any of the traits of Andrew. I suppose it does depend on character

I’m still mired in Sarah’s grifting.
She has no shame.

I always want to be clear when posting that I’m in no way an apologist for the horrible duo!

But it’s the CSA which is the surprise in the book for me and I don’t think it sits well with the other salacious content.

My thoughts have kept returning to it and, as pps say, there have been many cases among well-known people so God knows how many others have suffered in silence at their schools. A N Wilson got to 70 before he revealed the abuse he suffered at his Malvern prep school and following his revelations, a number of men tracked him down to his home and wanted to tell their own stories of abuse at the same school. He was horrified - he hadn’t realised the extent of it. In his case the Headmaster’s wife acted as procuress for her husband - it was a revolting situation which beggars belief.

Regarding the abuse at age 11, I began to wonder if Charles might have endured similar (or Edward). But, from what we know of their personalities, I would guess that Andrew might have made a very different type of friend to Charles (if poor, lonely Charles made any at all) so that may have saved him since it was the father of a school friend who arranged the ‘escort’.

Sorry for speculation, but it has boggled my middle-class, suburban mind. I can only think how traumatised my son would have been at 11.

For those PPs who wanted more about Pitch@Palace, this 2017 interview with John Arlidge may shed some light. It's also pretty clear what JA made of PA.

archive.is/DeNQH

Jumping- that’s exactly what baffles me. Whatever the other siblings’ faults, I think being Mummy’s favourite doesn’t really cut it as an explanation of Andrew’s venality. There’s something else going ion there - a catastrophic mix of nature and nurture.

i mean - Anne was her father’s favourite but I’d be surprised if she has anything like this in her background.

It's always interesting how siblings turn out different from one another. I haven't studied the effects of the place in the family. That might have something to do with it.

Funnily enough, I was talking about this with one of my DCs recently. She has this peculiar knack of always being able to tell if someone is an only, no. 2, middle child, eldest or whatever.

At her work she went through about 7 in her team who she knows well... and got them all correct!

I am not the slightest bit surprised that Andrew was the indulged one. After quite a considerable gap between his eldest siblings and him, and QE2 having been on commonwealth tours for months on end rather neglecting C&A... the guilt probably kicked in and she spoilt the son who came along after a gap. Then she eased up when Edward came along.

Unnoticed or hushed up? it kind of reminds me of the situation Freud found himself in - uncovering rampant sexual labuse of women by their fathers, brothers, uncles etc, which he originally felt was the cause of their neuroses. The good men of Vienna got together and told him he would be blackballed unless he backed off. So he said that it was all in the womens heads and handed us all a legacy of misogynistic views of wormen and mental health. (I know there are other theories about why he changed his views, but I tend to believe this one).

Powerful people have ways of shutting down what they dont want aired.

Both hushed up AND unnoticed!

@Hotflushesandchilblains I never knew that about Freud being told to stay quiet or…..

Could you ask your daughter what are the clues re knowing where someone comes in a family birth order please @jumpingthehighjump

I read it last week, when it came out.
There was a lot in the book that was re-hashed and I was not convinced by the so-called sources.
However, I think the Duchess came out of it "slightly" better.
As for the Duke, he just does not seem to be a very pleasant individual in any way, shape or form. However, I would question where his advisors were, in certain situations and why he was not given a little more "training" on his trade representative role.
One thing that struck me was the effect growing up in a dysfunctional family had on both of them, so I am pleased that the Prince and Princess of Wales are putting as much effort as they can into ensuring their children have a somewhat more "normal" childhood.

I would just like to chip in I am a third born child and have no traits whatsoever like PA.
He is not a typical 3rd born child!

I would say his attitude, in a similar way to the troublesome Harry, comes from being the spare. The just in case. I mean Henry the Eighth was a spare so they're maybe always hoping.

Am about half way through, when is the part about the sexual abuse?

Have to say I am part baffled and part impressed with the number of girlfriends (regular ones, not the Epstein stuff) he had in the late 90s and 00s!

Hiya! I will ask her, but she is mad busy at work at the moment. It is all to do with personality

@CoffeeCantata
A forensic look at the HS2 finances would be fascinating and,I suspect,horrifying.

Very late, towards the end of the book. I kept thinking the same thing.

I think they really are. I think they’ve both taken a good look around and decided that the Middletons have got family life right!

I'm fairly surprised that the more serious papers don't seem to have run with the revelations. I would have expected to see some serious questions asked about Andrew's finances and the trade envoy debacle. Instead it all seems to have been a storm in a teacup and The Mail is back attacking the Wales family.

I do agree that William should have attended VJ Day but the Mail is also on the hate Wales part of the clickbait cycle judging by their articles this Summer.

The serious part about his young life and abuse are at / towards the end ( it's not entirely chronological )

Re number of girlfriends - I imagine being a Prince of the Realm sprinkles a little stardust on you rather than being Andy Windsor son of the person who owns the village hardware shop 😂 A guess merely. But how many stuck with him. From what I read Koo Stark sounded quite level headed but things she had done (unfairly IMHO) counted against her. Different times methinks. But whether she would have stuck with him who will ever know.