As Never the second release ...

[onehorserace]

Wine, apricot spread and honey. I think we've had all the suggestions for names already ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14832085/amp/Meghan-Markle-new-products-rose-wine-apricot-spread.html

firstly any return would surely have to depend on their future silence and I wonder if they'd be capable of that,

I think any gradual nostos for Harry from his strange and surreal west coast odyssey would necessarily have his future silence baked in as a pre-condition.

In fact I think a cautious rapprochement would be more likely to ensure his future silence than the current 'grey rock' approach (it's not genuine grey rock anyway; the two PR camps have little sorties and skirmishes fairly regularly, and I think they probably communicate at times).

Yes he’s said himself that he doesn’t want to have to touch Diana’s money. He’s been brought up thinking he’s just entitled to all sorts of things without having to do anything in return. Not even use discretion and behave with integrity.

I agree that Camilla is well worth a mention.

Camilla listened to expert PR advice and kept her mouth shut.

Can anyone genuinely say that either H or M are capable of either listening to expert advice or keeping their mouths shut given their track record?

I think any gradual nostos for Harry from his strange and surreal west coast odyssey would necessarily have his future silence baked in as a pre-condition

Loving that "strange and suureal west coast odyssey" bit, @GiveMeSpanakopita , but really I was thinking more about how such an arrangement could ever be imposed if Harry chose otherwise - and let's face it he's already chosen to speak on too many occasions when silence might have been the better option

After all that's not so much a "formal agreement" thing as a personality one, and I just wonder if it's possible for someone to change so much, no matter how much of a relief it might initially seem to be back among what he knows

The trouble is that H+M saw themselves as equal to, or even better than W+C. And you just can’t have people like that in a monarchy, who refuse to accept the hierarchy and would seek to compete with and undermine the future king and queen. I mean, they still do this now, five years later, with the faux royal tours and constant little digs, the copying and attempts to spike royal events. Meghan can’t allow a cute picture of gap-toothed Louis on his birthday to go by without trying to redirect the attention to her own family. They are completely unsuited to royal life and are cruel and vindictive. Not an attractive prospect for William who has three kids and a perhaps slightly fragile wife to protect. Not to mention a job to do.

I don't think Meghan has the patience needed to rehabilitate her image, assuming she even wants to. Both Camilla and Sophie worked hard in the background for years on good causes to rebuild respect, and some people still think Camilla:bad, Diana:good. Meghan is far too fond of centre stage to do the necessary boring graft, always assuming that she thinks she has anything to make up for which i suspect she doesn't.

I agree Harry could come back in a very, turns up in the fourth row at events way, but I hope he doesn't because I think he would only return after a divorce and I don't wish that on anyone.

I can’t see Harry ever being able to handle William being his boss either.

Another difference between Camilla and Meghan which wouldn't help the situation is that i suspect Camilla doesn't enjoy the high profile and attention but accepts it came with marrying Charles whereas Meghan is very invested in the fame and influence she sees as part of being royal.

Camilla: I will tolerate the attention for the husband

Meghan: I will tolerate the husband for the attention

😂

I'm unsure how Harry is going to cope with being the Duchess of Sussex husband. A spare in his family, marraige and if Meghan is to be believed in his children's upbringing as he's too busy with Invictus and she does everything else.

IMHO, people are making a huge assumption that H will still be patron of Invictus in 2027.

Just like H's announcement of HIHO (half-in, half-out), H's announcement of the impending invitations to KC3 and W was done without grasping that the RF has a range of options beyond accepting, one of which is to remove H and show up en masse to support the new Invictus patron...and there are several choices.

Tim Laurence could step forward based on his stellar naval career. Arthur Chatto, from the marines, could also step up, a youthful, good-looking addition to the royal front line.

Wounded veterans are not there to support H's ego. IMHO, Invictus deserves a better patron who makes the games all about the wounded veterans.

"and let's face it he's already chosen to speak on too many occasions when silence might have been the better option"

I think it's important not to underestimate the pacifying effect that the promise of financial aid can have on a self-pitying loudmouth, if said loudmouth also happens to be stony broke.

@MrsLeonFarrell "I agree Harry could come back in a very, turns up in the fourth row at events way,"

Yes, this is what I envisage when I say return/rapprochement. I doubt H&M would ever live full time in the UK, attend Christmas at Balmoral, etc etc etc. But I don't discount it, because I don't discount anything in life, especially when it comes to families.

And the Royal family in particular. On a good day I'm a fairly decent chess player. The Royal Family? They're Garry Kasparov, Magnus Carlsen and DeepMind, all rolled into one.

I would like to see forgiveness and reconciliation because it's horrible being estranged in families. I just would hope that before he is allowed back Harry takes some responsibility for his actions. I don't care whether it is made public or not but his family are owed a heart felt apology.

At least the royals have time on their side.

I think it's important not to underestimate the pacifying effect that the promise of financial aid can have on a self-pitying loudmouth, if said loudmouth also happens to be stony broke

Now that's definitely true, @GiveMeSpanakopita, though it does still play into whatever discontent he might be feeling right now and might not reflect how he could feel in future once his "entitlement" was back in place

Especially if his wife hadn't felt able to accompany him and he perceived that what was actually a generous accommodation had cost him in personal terms

I just would hope that before he is allowed back Harry takes some responsibility for his actions

Edited to add this is what I'd expect to be the sticking point, @MrsLeonFarrell, and why I wondered if anyone can really change their personality that much - even more so when it's something they've never had to do

I do think that it’s too simplistic to reduce the situation to an exercise in PR, much as I am often in agreement with@GiveMeSpanakopita. There may be PR skirmishes, but do the Principals really want a rapprochement. As @Puzzledandpissedoff says, it takes a lot for a leopard to change its spots, and much as William may “no longer be angry”, that doesn’t mean he is ready to forgive and / or forget. Nor does it mean that anyone is ready to trust the Sussexes. Whilst it may be statesmanlike for William and Charles
to be the bigger people, there are feelings and personalities involved. It reminds me a
bit of how Trump tries to reduce geopolitics to mutually beneficial deals. The reality in the ground is far more complicated

weird autocorrect

I wonder if H and M will be invited to Camilla’s 80th birthday bash which will be during Invictus 2027 ?

But the allegation about the private letters being exchanged remained in all versions. The one thing we could be sure of then was that the person who took it to the Telegraph was not committing any breach of confidence in doing so (that’s the first thing the lawyers would have pounced on - so it wasn’t a staff member who stole a copy of the letter for example). If someone had leaked the contents of private correspondence without permission, the story would have been taken down.

Can someone explain in regards to the above - how Meghan won against the Daily Mail for publishing excerpts of the letter she sent to her father? Her father gave the DM the excerpts - is it not the case that once you wrote and sent correspondence to someone it's then their property to do with what they want? I think I'm having a moment because I can't understand how that works legally?

I don't see how they be invited to anything at the moment because it would end up in People. If they had stopped with Oprah it even Spare then maybe but it is only a month or so since Harry spoke to the BBC and said he didn't know how long Charles had left. How can you enjoy a party watching everything you do and say?

😂

Yesterday, I spotted the Sentebale chair Sophie Chandauka in a photo promoting the Netflix deal involving KCIII and Idris Elba. It makes me wonder, again, if she is a Royal family plant to 'save' Sentebale' from Harry so it can continue and be properly governed. Get a move on, Charity Commission!

I do think that it’s too simplistic to reduce the situation to an exercise in PR,

Of course. But as I've said before, I'm only really interested in H&M from the PR angle. Others are interested in the moral/emotional/psychological sides of it. Viewing it through those frameworks, the idea of a partial rapprochement looks different (and less palatable, if comments on this thread are anything to go by). From a PR perspective, it is, imo, the most elegant long term solution.

But let's view it through a psychological framework too, why not? And let's look at just Harry now, and his kids. Separate him from the H&M Grievance Hydra for a moment.

Word in the industry is that the money's running out, fast. And what does a qualification-free manchild, who's suited to no remunerative work and is allegedly in possession of a substance use problem, do when his money runs out, all his friends are gone and no one invites him to any of their parties?

What did the Bibilical Prodigal Son do? What does Robert Frost say about 'home', and what the people there have no choice but to do?

The institution knows how to protect itself. Edward VIII was a risk (alignment with the Third Reich) so was never allowed back in. Camilla was a reputational risk as a 'scarlet woman' but over those 20 years showed her ability to keep out of the way. Harry has been treacherous, but not to the extent that King Edward was. That's one issue. Another, as large I think, is Harry's unpredictability. Monarchy thrives on steady state. All I can see is him being accepted back to family gatherings once the kids are grown and Meghan is out of the way - if that ever happens.

She needs publicity so sell her products or she would be seen as living of Harry’s millions.

I can't see H & M ever being accepted back into the royal fold. The absolute chaos they created, the reputational damage they caused, the conflict and divisiveness that dogged their every footsteps. Not happening imho.

I'm also not sure that Charles is subbing them. I can well imagine there being provisos for Lily and Archie, but not so much for H & M. Didn't he say something to the Queen about not taking H's calls because he wasn't a bank? I think Charles is one of those easy going, genial, bimbling types who is very conflict averse - but who does have a limit, and when that limit is finally reached, that's it.

Apart from William and Charles, there are some pretty strong and forthright personalities in the royal family. If, and it's a massive if, they came back, I can't imagine some of those people holding their tongues. (In fact, I imagine some of them would love to let rip!) And one whiff of someone not being absolutely floored by the awesomeness that is M, would have the pair of them (H & M) straight back into tantrum/foot-stamping mode.

I also can't see them being accepted by the public. They themselves probably think they can win the masses back just by being their own fabulous selves, but I don't think it would take long before they were disabused of this notion. And then - guess what? Yup, back into tantrum/foot-stamping mode.

I can see that Harry might want to come back for various reasons. But Meghan - not in this lifetime thank you very much. I don't think she's brave enough to face up to the RF after all that she's said and done - you only have to look at her demeanour when she and H accompanied William and Kate on that walkabout after the Queen died.

I wonder if H and M will be invited to Camilla’s 80th birthday bash which will be during Invictus 2027 ?

I doubt it. H said some vile things about Camilla in Spare.

And I think that would be the sticking point for KC. Much as he might regret what has happened, I think he would put loyalty to his wife ahead of a possible reconciliation with his son.

And there are the issues of confidentiality. H said he didn't know how long his father has got. If they were to meet, and H then started talking about his father's health, there would be all sorts of speculation about whether he really knew anything. And then it becomes a constitutional issue, not just a family matter.