As Never the second release ...

[onehorserace]

Wine, apricot spread and honey. I think we've had all the suggestions for names already ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14832085/amp/Meghan-Markle-new-products-rose-wine-apricot-spread.html

I think the letter was Meghan to KCIII, not the other way round.

I don't think that reconciling would be good PR for the RF, from what I've seen.
I meet with a full range of people through work and other things and the general mood is:
Charles is doing better than they thought he would as king (with a helping of "QEII was a hard act to follow")
They're surprised to find that actually like Camilla after hating her for so long.
"Bless Catherine; best of luck for the medical treatment".
Harry needs to STFU and keep away from the UK.

Tbf Harry only tends to be mentioned when people are comparing another's behaviour to his (along the lines of "as bad as...") . And I've discovered to make sure the subject is changed rapidly if there's member of the armed services there otherwise the language plummets to a new low.

I think the RF reconciling would go down badly all round. Ignoring has got a lot of respect.

I think in this discussion it’s important not to underestimate how dumb Harry is

The existence of the letter (or an exchange of letters between MM and then Prince Charles) was leaked to the Telegraph around 6 months before the Netherlands "mistake". That leak allowed Scobie to claim it was "common knowledge" amongst the UK media who the "royal racist" was and that he had not got that info from MM or done anything wrong himself (implying the Dutch translator just popped those names in off her own bat).

I wonder what the RF will do if Harry ever publicly begs for reconciliation without making swipes at them at the same time (which is close to what he did in the BBC interview).

Perhaps Charles would meet with H and then see what, if anything, is said or leaked to the press (other than perhaps a pre-agreed statement). And then again, and again, to effectively test H. And if anything is said or leaked, they go back to grey rock.

I also think that the children would be bound to be compared, and the Waleses will always come off better because they are the children of the heir. Look what happened to Catherine when Meghan couldn’t handle being lower in the hierarchy - coordinated online bullying, publicly labelled a racist, constant digs, resurrecting Waity Katie, calling her Kate in public statements. I can’t imagine that H+M will be happy for their children to go the way of Princess Margaret’s, while they watch the Waleses become significant global figures. William must surely be wary of giving them the opportunity to do to his children what they have already done to his wife. Their jealousy and insecurity are not his problem.

Oh yes, that infamous article in the Telegraph shortly before Coronation that mentioned there had been* *“private” letters between Meghan and Charles about the racism incident.

The internet records show the article was a changed more than 10 times by the Telegraph after it was first uploaded, and we were told lawyers on both sides had been involved. But the allegation about the private letters being exchanged remained in all versions. The one thing we could be sure of then was that the person who took it to the Telegraph was not committing any breach of confidence in doing so (that’s the first thing the lawyers would have pounced on - so it wasn’t a staff member who stole a copy of the letter for example). If someone had leaked the contents of private correspondence without permission, the story would have been taken down.

Given the way the article was trackably changed since it was first published - for example with a new sentence added saying how appallingly Meghan and Harry were treated by the Royal family - it was quite clear who was holding the pen behind the scenes (and who wanted that information out there)

That's a really good point and it's not entirely within H & M's control to ensure that nobody takes swipes at G, L and C. I think they are sometimes slightly cowed by their supporters who would take up the gauntlet for them but cannot be controlled without risk of backlash.

Highgrove profits are donated to charity and a lot cheaper as you get double the amount for £6.95 for double the amount. It is also organic.

Apricot is is a rather pedestrian choice for her high end aspirations. I think I only ever bought apricot to use as glue to marzipan a Christmas cake. Where are the unusual flavours? Strawberry and Champagne? Spiced Plum? Pear with saffron and chilli? Raspberry Chocolate & Chilli? I guess when you deal with drop shippers who just stick your label onto bog standard jars then you have to use what they have.

There were 2 letters exchanged as briefed to People

People Magazine Article

"Meghan's correspondence was allegedly sent in response to a letter she received from King Charles, who was then known as the Prince of Wales, in which he expressed his sadness over tension within the family. Charles is believed to be the only senior royal to have made contact with Meghan following the Oprah interview, according to the report."

The fact that H&M did not race to the nearest camera to deny Scobie's allegations shows how short-term their thinking is. Charles' correspondence is of historical record and it will be declassified in 50 years i.e. during A&L's lifetime.

If H&M's allegations do not sync up with the letter, then A&L and their DC (H&M's DGC) will have to live with that albatross around their necks. Talk about generational trauma.

By contrast, I love apricot jam, though when I buy it is usually this (from Sainsbury's)

Any contact or reconciliation is going to be milked by Meghan for decades to come. 'The King got down on his knees and thanked me for my compassion '. The Royal family don't want to do tit for tat refuting and have resisted doing so to date. Any communication will just open the door for more self serving fantasy from H and M.

pot pourri?

Oh yes, and Meghan would be doing the 'My husbands father apologised to me and I accepted his apology".

I've seen comments by loads of Americans on sites telling the RF to keep H & M away from the Wales family to protect the Wales. H & M are a liability and a money pit. Meghan is like the fisherman's wife in the folktale. Nothing will ever be enough for her. Both H & M constantly embarrass themselves. The RF does not need them. Montecito has excellent public schools funded by local taxes. H & M can send their kids to those schools without paying extra tuition.

I'm waiting for H & M to do one of their little tours of Iran. 😁

Thank you @Serenster . You have pieced that together beautifully from the legal perspective of privacy and who the likely source would have been (as if we didn't know). We must never forget this.

If Charles does capitulate to this Invictus invitation, I very much hope he publicly extends the invitation to the Markle family in the interests of reconciliation and putting the past behind them. It's long overdue for the in-laws to get together as one big happy family. eh, Meghan?

I'm sure Charles must be saddened by the whole thing but (there are so many buts) he's ultimately got to put his role and responsibility to guard it first and I just don't see how M&H can be trusted at this point. I think it would take a lot of time and genuine bridge building by them and there isn't any evidence of that happening. How could he (and William, who I think is a different kettle of fish anyway, and Catherine and Camilla) trust them again without a huge sea change.

The Prodigal Son wandered off with his inheritance, squandered it and returned with humility. He didn't publically denounce his family including his older brother and SIL and continue to proclaim himself the injured party to anyone in the Ancient Near East who would listen.

She's totally the fisherman's man.

I feel sorry for them in a way, they don't know how to really live. All the money they've had, infinite options and opportunity to build an incredible life. And yet what they have built is so banal, so ordinary and tawdry and unenviable. Almost chavvy at times, reminding me of Peter Andre and Katie Price. Shocking. She's trying to sell this trad wife dream but she makes it look more like a parody. Compared to someone like Ballerina farm Hannah, who makes it look incredible and utterly aspirational, whatever the reality behind the scenes may be.

Dopey old Haz was a blank cheque in many ways, millions of women could've made a better and more interesting fist of it than she has. I suspect she's pretty toxic, but I dislike her less for that and more because she's a dullard, an empty vessel with zero imagination. Think of all the incredible properties and lifestyles in the world, and they bought that soulless McMansion that looks like a mid-range old people's home in new Mexico.

I think that's totally right - and I hope the RF are thinking that way.

They do not need Harry and Meghan. In fact - mild monarchist though I am, if they were 'brought back into the fold' I think I might be brandishing a yellow 'Not My King' placard!! 😂

But Harry and Meghan need their connection with the RF and they don't care what kind of connection. If they could summon up more awful scandals and misdemeanours I'm sure they'd do it - except that it would start to seem really petty. Their original pretext for washing dirty linen on a global stage was to explain their 'freedom flight', but now they've got the freedom they supposedly wanted (ahem...) it would be difficult to do it AND maintain the moral high ground.

Of course their lives aren't quite as they hoped - they wanted the glam bits of royal life without the hum-drum ones, and they wanted financial support while living in the US, but that's their problem!

Yes, with H & M out of the picture there will eventually be fewer royals to do the things which used to happen in QEII's time, but i really do think that William wants a different kind of monarchy and a more normal life for his family and I think he will move things more towards a Scandinavian model.

I think the Chrissy Teigan feature might have been the final straw even for Meghan's most committed supporters.

Starting a network for parents of children who've ended their lives over cyber bullying, and then choosing to ally yourself with a woman who infamously cyberbullied a vulnerable 16 year old and told her repeatedly on DM to "Go k* yourself" is...not a terribly joined up approach to image management.

There's a difference between viewing these things through a moral/emotional lens ("I do wonder how the RF could ever trust H&M again") and viewing them dispassionately through a tactical lens. The RF hasn't survived for this long by letting emotion drive strategy and tactics. And you don't have to trust someone to keep them fairly close (in fact, not trusting them is a good reason FOR keeping them close)

Not for the first time I admire your pragmatic approach, @GiveMeSpanakopita, and while I agree with every single point that's been made about why a return would be unwelcome I don't underestimate the fickleness of those who would once have stressed Camilla's unacceptibility and now insist she's great - though of course even Camilla didn't behave in the way H&M have done

Two caveats though ... firstly any return would surely have to depend on their future silence and I wonder if they'd be capable of that, and secondly is it really likely Meghan would tolerate a return to the UK - and if she wouldn't there's a lot else which could follow from that, much of it potentially just as upsetting

Meghan spouts stuff about women finding their voice...but oddly is not keen on giving that right to her staff

Or anybody else come to that, @CoffeeCantata, if the NDAs required from those visited are anything to go by

Then again, when someone's that inadequate and capable of doing such damage to their reputations all by themselves, I can see that more input by others will be unwelcome

I feel sorry for them in a way, they don't know how to really live. All the money they've had, infinite options and opportunity to build an incredible life. And yet what they have built is so banal, so ordinary and tawdry and unenviable. Almost chavvy at times, reminding me of Peter Andre and Katie Price. Shocking. She's trying to sell this trad wife dream but she makes it look more like a parody. Compared to someone like Ballerina farm Hannah, who makes it look incredible and utterly aspirational, whatever the reality behind the scenes may be.

Maggie - I was having this argument on the other thread yesterday. It's one of my bugbears that neither of them seem to have any cultural knowledge or interests - and some supporters thought that was irrelevant, or totally their business. I think for people who want us to listen to them and take notice of them, they need to be less ignorant and vapid.

But on a personal level it's important too. Apart from polo...what does Harry like doing? Watercolour painting? Arty photography? Serious gardening, like his father? And Meghan? Theatre? Art history? Museums? History? Music?

I think that's why they are so discontented and can't settle down. If I had their money I'd be wallowing in all the wonderful cultural and other experiences I could afford to pursue. I'd have one-to-one painting lessons, go to fabulous concerts and exhibitions...you name it. It's a serious point, not a frivolous one. If you have no genuine interests, your life is going to be empty and meaningless.

Camilla's always worth a mention in this context, because how long did it take for the RF to rehabilitate her image? The thick end of twenty years. Twenty years. And they did it, inch by inch.

That's the benefit of being Royal rather than a celeb. Celebs think in terms of days, weeks and months. The Royals think in terms of years and decades. Centuries, even.

So yes, I do believe that Harry will eventually end up back in the fold. Not fully back, mind. Fold-adjacent, maybe. Whether that's in 2027, 2030, 2038 or 2041. It'll happen.

Meghan, too? I don't know about that one. We'll see, I guess.