Royals and Religion - A relationship through time

[myrtleWilson]

A few threads this Easter have touched upon the relationship between the RF and religion. There was some really interesting avenues for discussion that didn't focus on who was worshipping where (or not). I offered to start a thread that isn't meant to focus on individuals and criticism but explore the relationship between the two institutions in a 21st century.

With religion (and certainly participation rates) declining in the UK, is it inconceivable that a future monarch (or indeed a future govt) disentangles the R&R's? As we see an increase in personal spirituality, and a connection to what I've seen termed as 'faith in action' with respect to social justice, is that what we may want current/future monarchs to reflect? Is it important to have strong and constant faith or can monarchs (and heirs) acknowledge doubts? Can you have faith without demonstrating faith (as a monarch)

What lessons from history can we learn from and how do our European monarchies engage in this space?

I've attached links to a couple of pieces I stumbled across this weekend - a couple of these were linked to the question is PW religious but as I've suggested, lets try to keep this thread off critiques of individuals! Should also say the links below I've not done a massive deep dive on them - they seem sound but if they have dodgy affiliations I've not uncovered then apologies in advance!

Prince William's doubt is normal - it's impossible to be certain whether there is a God | Seen & Unseen
Prince William ‘is reflecting a discomfort with Christianity in this country’ – SWINDON CHURCH
Church and state in European monarchies | The Constitution Unit Blog

She wouldn’t have had that wedding we all paid for without going through the motions of joining the Church. But before the pile on, let me just add it may well have been Harry who wanted the big wedding, not Meghan.

Not only Christian religions but yes the Roman Catholic Church seems to take top spot there.

He certainly seemed to believe that she deserved a big wedding by his own account. I think the Queen et al thought they would go for a smaller event as it was Meghan’s second wedding (and her first did look very relaxed and intimate). Harry seemed to be the one annoyed that they weren’t getting the William and Catherine treatment.

I couldn’t think of anything worse than a public wedding and would have begged them to have a small private affair. The thought of messing up on live tv makes me break out into a cold sweat. I still feel so bad for Lady Louise’s dress malfunction at the Eugenie’s wedding, though of course she did handle it with absolute grace and decorum (I would have been a blubbering mess at her age).

Are there any statistics out there that highlights the number of UK civil ceremonies compared to religious ceremonies? I’m just thinking that of the last 10 weddings I’ve attended, all but one was a civil ceremony. Again, religion doesn’t seem to be as important to the younger generation. Do royals have church weddings because it is expected of them or is it genuinely because they are religious and have a deeper faith than most of the general public?

Poor Louise, that was so awful for her.

I'm sure Harry wanted the big wedding. If he complained about the number of sausages he got I'm pretty sure a big wedding was high up on his wants list. Meghan loved that wedding. I'm so glad I went out on my motorbike that day to a lovely coastal village. I do remember hearing the cheers and noise from the various pubs as I passed though.

Organised religion serves to keep society in order (whether that’s a good or bad thing). If the established church supports and promotes a compassionate, caring and benevolent society then I suppose you would want the monarchy as an institution to be signed up to that.

I do love the history of Christianity and marriage. I remember reading that in the medieval and early modern period, you were technically married if you made a verbal agreement or promise to marry, and then consummated the union. No need for a church or priest to marry you.

Some people believe that Catherine Howard entered such a marriage with Francis Dereham before she married Henry VIII. It was only really the Hardwicke Marriage Act of 1753 that curbed these clandestine marriages.

This is why I always laugh when people scream about tradition in regards to royalty and society. Our traditions and cultures are always evolving. No need to have the church and state intermingled if it doesn’t serve society any more.

@themightysossidge I adore that t-shirt!

If in the highly unlikely event a prince of the realm and I fell in love (I live on Netflix romantic films, ok??) and we wanted to marry but I had to join the CofE 😒 as an atheist I think I might swallow my reservations and just do it. Why? Because, love 💞! Also, free accommodation.

My mum had me christened so I'd only need to get confirmed really. I spent a lot of time a Brownie pretending to pray in Church but instead making friendship bracelets under the pews so this wouldn't be too much of a stretch (our Brownie troupe went to church once a month. It was 1988. Times have changed).

That being said I do think disestablishment is the only way forward now. Our country has changed so much over the past century and our monarch should be a symbol of all Britons' faths. I think that's what KC3 wants, to honour people of all faiths regardless. He should also represent me, who hasn't got a faith by choice. It would be great if William's children can marry who they wish and not have to have the difficult conversation about converting.

And teaching (especially public/ boarding schools)

And sports coaches/ doctors.

And medical professionals.

The common denominator being access to children, and a (rapidly changing, thank goodness) assumption that a respectable professional man (mostly) couldn't possibly do something 'like that'.

My mother was the childhood friend of a woman whose brother became a priest. They were poor immigrants and the family was delighted. She kept in sporadic touch with the woman and followed the rise of the brother, who eventually became a cardinal. Fortunately she died before the brother was hauled in to court over the many abuses and coverups that took place under him in his jurisdiction.

This. And it means the genuine ones who want to help may well be put off.