Harry v NGN 2

[mainecooncatonahottinroof]

I don't think we're done talking - and I never start threads!

As you were!

You are only reading what you want to read @JoyousGreyOrca. The quote function doesn't seem to be working (that's because the thread was full lol!)

Personally I would have liked to see Harry at least mount a decent case, bring a lot of the sleaze around MGN and its activities into the spotlight. That sits quite separately from Harry's own activities towards the RF, which I think have been deplorable. I don't know what his chances of winning the case were, because I am not across the detail to a sufficient degree, and I am no Shelbourne! I'm not convinced his case would have been sufficiently strong and producing evidence so long after the event must have been fraught with difficulty, plus I am not convinced either that he would have stood up well to cross-examination.

I am no fan of the press and I do think it needs to be more regulated; however I think Harry is anti-freedom of speech and that is too far for me (I mean he thinks the First Amendment is bonkers?!)

I think I am a pretty balanced person and the attacks here when you express your opinion are galling.

I want to see what he does with what's left of the money after he pays his US taxes. Will he donate it to charities other than Archewell? To Archewell? Or just keep it?

Thank you for the second thread.

Interesting to listen to Andrew Marr speaking with Tina Brown on LBC tonight…

AM: “you and I have seen a lot of newspaper apologies over the years but I don’t remember 300 words quite as grovelling, quite as fulsome as this one”

AM estimates the settlement to be between £10 -£20 million pounds.

TM : “he took them right to the court room door. I truly admire Harry for making this stand”

and Tina Brown saying that Buckingham Palace should be breaking out the champagne for Harry! Not that they will.

So, yes, when that is the verdict of these two respected British journalists, I think we can safely take this as a win.

The last three paragraphs are thought-provoking:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2l0kzypgz4o

Edited for spelling.

I'll wait to be convinced...

I wasn't sure if anyone would find this thread!

Always open to what transpires!

Tina Brown recently came hard for Meghan (and wasn’t particularly generous about Harry, all with good reason), so interesting she’s on team “it’s a win”, here.

I’d love to see a royal comment on it. I saw Tom Watson said Murdoch should apologise personally to the king “if he had any decency”, which is obviously the high spirits pugnaciousness of being on the courtroom steps full of money, but nonetheless entertaining. Hopefully we can get a journo to provoke a response when they’re doing something else, like when Meghan called them all racist and William took the bait.

Don't these threads reflect why a settlement was possible? It allowed both Harry and NGN to avoid a conclusive result in court. Instead both won and both lost.

The current way the tabloid press behave is a separate issue. It is certainly a lot better since Leveson but I don't think anyone would claim that the tabloids behave in a completely ethical manner.

A journalist on Newscast last night made what I thought was a really interesting point. Since this case, and all the others, began tabloids have lost a great deal of their power and influence. Circulation figures have dropped off a cliff and social media sites are far more influential.

As I said upthread, I really hope this settlement brings Harry closure. I don't believe that the government will have much interest in taking this further though because it is all very historical and they have other problems. I don't think the proof is there on actual journalists or executives breaking the law (even though I'm pretty sure at least some did). A criminal case needs a much higher level of proof and would be very costly.

If the government were to do anything I believe that the amount of misinformation circulated on social media is a much more pressing issue. I don't see how this can be tackled centrally though. It's up to each of us as individuals to check our sources and scrutinise what we read and listen to rather than accepting it as fact straight off.

Harry won: he got a more detailed apology than other claimants, his costs paid and an unknown amount besides.

NGN won: they wanted to settle from the start and this is just one more payout after many, many others. The apology was carefully worded to make it sound like they went down on bended knee before Harry but, scratch the surface, and it's limited in very specific ways.

Harry lost: he settled when he wanted his day in court and to hold senior editors to account. No dragons were slayed.

NGN lost: they're out of pocket and issued an apology, making it look like they are the loser and allowing Harry's side to proclaim from the rooftops that they 'won'.

The public generally could increasingly do with specific lessons in critical thinking and source appraisal.

Vanishingly unlikely to be implemented by Government and institutions reliant on misdirection, obfuscation or outright lies themselves.

Just on the press regulation point - I have always said and strongly believe that there should be an independent press regulator with real teeth. I have said so on MN several times (search my past posts!).

That can only come from parliament though, and they declined to go down that route at the end of Leveson 1. Rich and angry individuals pursuing civil claims against newspapers for activity that finished more than 15 years ago won’t change that decision. It is an exercise that makes them feel better I have no doubt, but it’s a waste of a scarce public resource to push on with a case for vengeance when the monetary compensation the claim your are making, and which is all the court can award, is already offered to you. It won’t move the dial on press regulation. And if you think a government focussed on growth and moving forward is going to fund Leveson 2 over this is dreaming. We would need to uncover new, current media misconduct to move that dial.

New misconduct is obviously not impossible - like most of us I am sure, I don’t have any illusions about what goes on there. But if you start to talk about what is the current issues, including online manipulation and social media, your “hero” figure of Prince Harry is himself implicated in some of the misconduct. Awkward I guess? Fans will never admit though. Just like they will never admit that Harry shouting he’s a dragonslayer in relation to press intrusion in people’s private lives has for the last five years been making a living by breaching thr privacy of his own family. So please forgive those of us who don’t see him as a hero.

@MrsLeonFarrell @Not2identifying agree, they both settled. Ultimately it was a draw.

I feel he might have 'won' (probably not financially) had he gone through with the case.

Despite the claims on the other threads I certainly do not hate Harry, I do find him interesting but ultimately I think he has stunted development.

Serenster

Just like they will never admit that Harry shouting he’s a dragonslayer in relation to press intrusion in people’s private lives has for the last five years been making a living by breaching thr privacy of his own family. So please forgive those of us who don’t see him as a hero.

I agree with your whole post, but especially this. Intrusion of privacy and spreading misinformation is apparently fine when Harry's the one doing it!

I really don't understand why he can't see that he is contributing to press intrusion every time he breaches his family's privacy.

He is not a dragonslayer, he is a very damaged boy.

Interesting analysis here. It’s a bit long and discusses other news items so I listen to it at 1.5 speed!

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00274wl?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

He’s not the brightest and he’s never been told “no” in his life (with the exception of “no, that’s for the heir”), I can well understand why he can’t see it.

But. Oprah was 2021, Harry & Meghan was 2022, Spare was January 2023, but the text will have been locked long before and the deal agreed/announced in summer 2021. Have they done anything invasive since? Not excusing him for toiling in that particular content mine but my suspicion is he regrets it and has stopped, hence pivoting to Heart of Invictus and Polo, no further books, etc.

Re the taxes that he’d have to pay in the US on a settlement - I must say, if I were him, as a British citizen, rowing with a British paper, in a British court system; I’d definitely be handing over my British bank account details and trying not to pay that tax. I don’t know what could prevent him from doing that.

I think Meghan probably told him to drop it or else because of the short chapter of PR disasters over the last week or so. Expensive to lose if you are no longer as confident about your cooking show.

I hope you are right.

I don’t think we can begin to understand how personal this feels for Harry, the growing up in a goldfish bowl, the blame he feels towards the press over Diana.

It is also extremely sad that in very many of these enquiries (including arguably bigger wrongdoing/cover ups such as windrush, grenfell cladding or infected blood products scandals for example) that organisation and individuals come to the stand and claim not to have known things, but it’s rare for any individual to take responsibility for the things they did or knew about or turned a blind eye to. I don’t know how victims and families really feel when the end result is a pithy apology from a company representative or the current government, and a bit of compensation.

otoh Harry himself still likes the privilege and renown that press coverage provides, he still believes that his status by birth qualifies him for a princely life without having to earn it, and doesn’t seem to want a normal, obscure life. He is happy to spill secrets on other people for cash and has kept quiet when his fans have behaved terribly and presumably unlawfully towards Catherine, particularly in the online sphere. Going after the tabloids is rather closing the door after the horse has bolted when the internet is the Wild West.

I don’t expect him to be a dragon slayer to solve all the worlds problems, he obviously has a heart for protecting particularly children from online harm, and the environment. But it’s the idea that just by turning up and being Prince Harry is some great gift to the masses, then driving off in a big SUV to where the private jet is waiting to take him back to his mansion or polo field would be quite alienating to much of the public I would think.

I understand the feeling about historic wrongs but Harry's campaign just seems so dated. There is no more phone hacking, paparazzi don't chase royals down the street and print media is almost over. He is still acting as if he is in the 90s and I suspect it is part of his grief and trauma. Also Diana wasn't murdered.

Thanks to @Serenster and others for the measured, polite and factual posts on this and the other thread.

And I completely agree that he's been breaching his family's privacy for years now, why he doesn't understand that it's unacceptable I don't know. As someone said, immense privilege and never being told "No"

@StartupRepair that's how I feel too. I don't really see how H achieved anything new yesterday.

Thanks for the new thread OP.

I'm not a hater, I don't have particularly strong feelings about Harry (or Meghan) unless you count amused irritation and zero respect as strong? I view them now akin to the Kardashians.

As I said on the previous thread, I'm glad he got the public apology and got the settlement. My personal feelings are that because Harry made the approach to NGN about settling is that the settlement will be substantial but not groundbreaking. Hugh Grant had a much stronger case evidentially than Harry so I think a bit more that Hugh's but at the lower end of the figures bandied about.

The real winners here will be the lawyers frankly. Certainly financially.

Both sides can claim a victory of sorts. NGN didn't have to go to court and Harry didn't show systemic illegality at a corporate level Not a clear win for either, more and insipid draw???

I for one will miss the chance of hearing Harry on the stand mourning the loss of his relationship with Chelsy Davey once again. 😭

I’d say that one side leaving with a £10 to £20 million pound pay-out in their pocket, and one side having to give that money away in order to stop worse things being exposed about them in court, indicates that it wasn’t quite so even a conclusion to the battle MrsFinkelstein