Duchy of Lancaster Theft

[Roussette]

Just when I thought I could not be more taken aback at some of the practices undertaken by our Monarchy, and the sheer greed.

I then read this article. Bottom line.... anyone who dies intestate in Lancashire, and parts of Merseyside, Grtr Manchester, Cheshire and Cumbria... their assets are scooped up by the Duchy of Lancaster who has collected more than £60M over the last 10 years. Not charity as is the norm.. but into the pocket of our King You need to read the article to see what he actually does with it and how it benefits his personal income.

The article explains it well and will answer any questions and queries about it.

Someone yesterday accused me of 'despising' the RF. I disagreed but I am beginning to wonder if that poster was right. Especially when I read something like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/23/revealed-king-charles-secretly-profiting-from-the-assets-of-dead-citizens?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

@Roussette
You are right that I did not read the whole thread and therefore did not read why people would not make a will.
That said I had great difficulty in getting my DH to make a will (we did each of ours together). It is as though he thought he would immediately die, or something, if he made a will. I kept explaining that it helps others sort things out, if there is an accident or something.
It should be pointed out that technically you do not need a solicitor to make a will, but it must be signed, dated, and two witnesses, who must actually witness you sign (and who cannot be beneficiaries, I believe).
It helps if there is a solicitor, who can get the wording right, etc. and help if it's complicated.
My Uncle left a 'letter of wishes', which was technically invalid as it was not signed by any witnesses, so the usuall 'heirs' had to all sign that they agreed to the wishes expressed, etc. But you will not find the letter on the Gov website of wills, as he technically died intestate. (in his case there were heirs, though, so it would not be a case of bona vacantia).

That's interesting milvey and your DHs reticence does illustrate why it can happen.

Apart from what I've said before on this, I bet there are lonely confused people out there who actually think they have made a Will. When they haven't

If you’ll forgive me interjecting again @Roussette, beliefs that you have made a will or in things like common law marriage are what gets me so frustrated about the lack of provision of teaching/knowledge about the law. It’s a bit like when the Panama Papers were published, my thoughts were “this is appalling, but it’s all in a day’s work for a city accountant” and also “HOW do people not know this?!” The reason all these obscure little legal and other secrets go undiscovered for so long is because the very people who want to keep them hidden are the exact people who make the laws. KC can’t make laws, although it’s objectionable that he takes full advantage of the luxuries inherent in his position. If you know how to use the law to your advantage you are privileged, powerful and probably fairly rich. If every other man on the street knew his rights and the rights of those in power in comparison, the powerful would have to take their boots off their underlings’ faces.

Just on the back of The Times 😮.

That obviously sounds random to you, but it’s not. The Times in considered a newspaper of record, and so an advertisement in the relevant place within the paper is deemed an appropriate way to draw attention to various matters (wills being granted probate and winding up petitions are other things advertised in it). The London Gazette is the newspaper of national record and so most legal notices are published there too - that’s even more inaccessible to an average member of the public though.

It doesn't sound random as such. But it does sound hard to find. A lot of these monies channelled through to the Duchies will be from small estates (I think I read somewhere, the average was £12,000). That being so, I doubt the relatives would necessarily think of looking on the back of the Times. I would not have known this. My first port of call would be dot gov.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau Feel free to interject. I agree with your post. Knowledge is power. So... as I said to Serenster above, if you are small fry compared to the powerful, you are at a huge disadvantage. Where to look. What to do.
I only know about Wills because I was Executor on two ... both of which were horrendous. I never want to go through that again! (long story) I know more about leaving money to Charity and what form that should take, than I care to.

That being so, I doubt the relatives would necessarily think of looking on the back of the Times. I would not have known this. My first port of call would be dot gov.

There’s a generational gap at play here though. People over a certain age would simply not think of looking online for official information but would know to look in the newspaper. Online may be convenient, but digital exclusion is a real issue.

Have you ever watched Heir Hunters? When my son was tiny, I watched hours of it breastfeeding. The Bona Vacantia lists are published and then heir hunting firms try to trace relatives for a cut. It was a fascinating program with some really sad stories. Often these estates were worth very little. As I understood it, the estates don't become crown property for 30 years so there is time to claim.

I am distantly related to someone who used to hunt for lost heirs in the US. He started over 30 years ago. It was fascinating to talk to him and how he went about finding people. It also made me very clear about the need for a will because even if they find you they charge a healthy percentage to give you the information.

I'm afraid I don't agree. My first port of call would be online, as would my elderly relatives... we have embraced the digital age. I'd like to know what the generational gap is here!

I read 7 to 12 years... although I think funds are kept for anyone who might make a claim later.

@Roussette so do I! I’ve never even had to deal with one, legal education requires you to learn about them. I find it immensely frustrating how law is made more complex specifically to disempower those who can’t access it as easily. I used to represent benefit claimants pro bono for their ESA appeals and there’s some ridiculous statistic like 90% of appeals succeed when there’s a representative and 90% fail without one. Also not many people realise this but although ignorance of the law is no defence, the websites which are free to access like legislation.gov.uk or BAILII are often out of date and you have to pay an appallingly high fee to access up-to-date resources on what the law is.

I found a lost relative some years ago now, who was adopted out of my mothers side of the family, and he's now close with his brother I introduced him to. I have in more recent years also filled holes in our family trees. It is much easier these days, thats for sure. Some of the heir hunters in the Uk can charge up to 40%, but I think 20% is more common. Still a lot though.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I would love to type more about we went through with two Wills... bit too identifying though. Needless to say it caused so many problems and nearly resulted in a breakdown for one close member of my family.

It has taught me something though... make your affairs as simple as you possibly can!

I took my landlady to court roughly 10 years ago now. Finding the information to force her to repair, making the council do their job, and then finding what I needed to know to make a small claim, took a long time and was very stressful. I was successful in my case, but I could not believe how hard it was just to find the information on the law. I know there are more helpful sites now for tenants though.

It’s really difficult and unfortunately the reason is gatekeeping by my profession (law) and the use of power and money by those who have it. I’m a bit of an idealist - been called cynical on this thread but I’d rather say realistic but extremely depressed - and there are ways to use the law for protection and help, such as fundamental human rights laws. They’re SO precarious though and that terrifies me.

And thanks @Iwantcakeeveryday. Sorry for everyone’s legal struggles. The ones mentioned so far sound at least irritating if not soul-destroying levels of annoying.

I'm afraid I don't agree. My first port of call would be online, as would my elderly relatives... we have embraced the digital age. I'd like to know what the generational gap is here!

It’s digital exclusion - where a section of the population have continuing unequal access and capacity to use information and communications technologies that are essential to fully participate in society. It’s a big issue, Roussette. Maybe not for you, and your family, but certainly more broadly.

Some groups are particularly affected, with a concentration of certain demographics within the digitally excluded. Studies show that overall non-users are increasingly older, less educated, more likely to be unemployed, disabled, and socially isolated.

Here’s a 2021 article from Mental Health UK on the topic. As banking continues to move online, libraries close, and parking meters near doctors surgeries and chemists shops increasingly move to apps rather than machines, it causing a lot of detriment.

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/blogs/tackling-digital-exclusion-older-people#:~:text=The%20issue%20of%20digital%20exclusion%20in%20later%20life%20has%20become,has%20worsened%20because%20of%20Covid.

And I agree with CeciledeVolangesDeNoveau - access to justice is a bit of a joke when most people haven’t a hope of affording the advice necessary to navigate your way through the court system to make a claim (or defend one made against you). I have for years now been kept busy helping friends and families bring cases in the small claims courts and other similar forums - or just help the complain to their banks/insurance companies etc about how they’ve been treated. It’s getting better, but a lot of those firms used to utterly shaft their customers secure in the knowledge that they wouldn’t know their rights.

(And don’t get me started on family law where one party can afford legal representation and one can’t…)

where a section of the population have continuing unequal access and capacity to use information and communications technologies that are essential to fully participate in society. It’s a big issue, Roussette. Maybe not for you, and your family, but certainly more broadly.

Gosh I know that. I am close to someone who volunteers teaching more elderly people in digital skills at the local library.
All this means... putting something on the back of the Times (who buys that in paper version anyway?) is a sop. Put it somewhere, job done.

Even if a person isn't digitally proficient, maybe they would know people who are?

The person I know who helps with this voluntarily has looked up all sorts of stuff for them!

Maybe back of the Times AND elsewhere? Not a big ask. On the dot gov site where anyone would go if they googled bona vacantia. I actually looked at the dot gov site. There was no link to the Times on the pages about bona vacantia. Unless I missed it. Don't think I did.

Daily readership for The Times is under half a million people - the figure varies depending on the source. I know online articles on The Times are usually paywalled so I assume public notices are, too. I guess one could dutifully check The Times online every day via library membership?

It comes across as a half-hearted, inefficient way to communicate TBH.

@DewinDwl yes, I have been trying to find the details of when they publish lists in The Times, can't find anything about it. The thing with it being online too is that the govt one has all of them plus the weekly lists, theres no full list of all the ones in Cornwall or all the ones in Lancaster currently not claimed. It appears there are lists randomly published in a newspaper. That makes the whole thing even worse.

Good grief. You'd never see anything about a dead relative then. What a ridiculous way of doing things.

The chances of buying the paper and happening to see something on a back page is very remote, and that's an understatement

The reason all these obscure little legal and other secrets go undiscovered for so long is because the very people who want to keep them hidden are the exact people who make the laws. KC can’t make laws, although it’s objectionable that he takes full advantage of the luxuries inherent in his position. If you know how to use the law to your advantage you are privileged, powerful and probably fairly rich. If every other man on the street knew his rights and the rights of those in power in comparison, the powerful would have to take their boots off their underlings’ faces.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I strongly agree with you here. Having come from a family that was very working class (although they did become flush with money for a few years) the ‘law’ and anything to do with citizens rights are some mysterious world i didn’t feel I had the right of entree to. And this feeling is not unique - far from it. Also working against people is the condescension shown by many in the law and richer classes. As a working class member, and a woman (double whammy) you didn’t open your mouth or you’d get talked down to or ridiculed as being, at best, ‘naive.’

These are often some of the very people not making wills, I expect.

It’s all deliberately designed that way, of course. As you said.

Maybe just keep in touch with your relatives if you want their money then?

Oh look twined has solved it! (Not)