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The royal family

Duchy of Lancaster Theft

843 replies

Roussette · 24/11/2023 08:46

Just when I thought I could not be more taken aback at some of the practices undertaken by our Monarchy, and the sheer greed.

I then read this article. Bottom line.... anyone who dies intestate in Lancashire, and parts of Merseyside, Grtr Manchester, Cheshire and Cumbria... their assets are scooped up by the Duchy of Lancaster who has collected more than £60M over the last 10 years. Not charity as is the norm.. but into the pocket of our King You need to read the article to see what he actually does with it and how it benefits his personal income.

The article explains it well and will answer any questions and queries about it.

Someone yesterday accused me of 'despising' the RF. I disagreed but I am beginning to wonder if that poster was right. Especially when I read something like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/23/revealed-king-charles-secretly-profiting-from-the-assets-of-dead-citizens?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Revealed: King Charles secretly profiting from the assets of dead citizens

Exclusive: Assets of thousands of people in north-west England used to upgrade king’s property empire via archaic custom

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/23/revealed-king-charles-secretly-profiting-from-the-assets-of-dead-citizens?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

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Novella4 · 25/11/2023 09:58

I don’t want to keep referring back here but @Serenster YOU mentioned the solicitor general not me. No doubt it was thrown in to attempt to add some legitimacy to the feudal ripoff ( yes I know there are 3 bodies that claim bona vacantia 1 the state and 2 being the Windsors )
I repeat saying it is ‘signed off’ is no defence where the monarchy is concerned as events have shown . The Windsors ‘sign it off’ as charity - but charity is seeing next to nothing - hence the outrage that is building

As for the deluded souls who think Charles can do better with the money than the state - yes it’s Stockholm syndrome but also the years and years of propaganda that we are all subject to

Things are being questioned now - finally!

Novella4 · 25/11/2023 10:04

Most people are now indifferent or hostile to the Windsors but if you are a fan it must be very hard to accept that you have fallen for the lies - whoops sorry the PR

The Windsors have said it was going to charity and it wasn’t . They lie . They are not ‘ good people’ MrsFarrell or they wouldn’t be sitting on billions upon billions while children shiver and starve on this country

Novella4 · 25/11/2023 10:08

And before someone says what about other billionaires ?
Other billionaires aren’t set above the law, ‘anointed ‘ by god in an unnecessary ceremony costing millions to reinforce the idea.
Othrr billionaires are not given billions from the state for simply being born and other billionaires are subject to tax law

CathyorClaire · 25/11/2023 10:08

Just catching up on this and I am truly shocked even though I shouldn't be. Thanks for highlighting it, Roussette.

I never agreed with the archaic practice of intestate estates going to the Duchies even if allocated to the cherry picked charities as was always claimed (with a proportion kept back in case the light-fingered royals were blindsided by a hitherto undiscovered rellie).

To find they're using the funds to refurbish properties for their own profit is a new low.

And all signed off in 2020 by our dutifully serving late queen.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 25/11/2023 10:19

CathyorClaire · 25/11/2023 10:08

Just catching up on this and I am truly shocked even though I shouldn't be. Thanks for highlighting it, Roussette.

I never agreed with the archaic practice of intestate estates going to the Duchies even if allocated to the cherry picked charities as was always claimed (with a proportion kept back in case the light-fingered royals were blindsided by a hitherto undiscovered rellie).

To find they're using the funds to refurbish properties for their own profit is a new low.

And all signed off in 2020 by our dutifully serving late queen.

I was hoping you'd join this thread! The Queen was exceptional with her greed wasn't she. While the Duchy of Cornwall does give it to charity, I don't think it makes it much better, it shouldn't be theirs in the first place.

Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:22

I have posted all the details from the relevant Duchy accounts, but it seems you’ve not read them Novella. Or perhaps read but not understood? In case it’s the latter, I’ll explain.

Each year a certain number of people will die in the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall where the deceased left no will, and there are no easily traceable living relatives who might inherit (the rules around that are set by parliament in the Intestacy Act, not the Duchies).

The Duchy then assumes responsibility for the deceased’s property. That will entail in most cases getting the necessary court order allowing it to deal with the property, completing all the necessary paperwork, arranging for properties to be emptied, cleared and sold, and arranging for saleable items to be sold, liquidating any back accounts and investments and then collecting the remaining financial value.

All of that work comes at a cost (the time of the people working on it and the fees of the services that are needed, like court fees etc), as is true with any estate. So, as with any estate, the fees of the administration are deducted from the estate before it is distributed. In the case of bona vacantia, these fees will also include the time that is spent trying to locate any blood relatives.

So, an estate that is worth, say £100k on paper when the person dies may only result in £80k value after the administration is concluded. The Duchies’ accounts are then perfectly clear what happens to that £80k - it gets held in a reserve fund in case any family member does turn up and make a claim. If they do, they are paid out (we know this happens because of the case that’s been talked about in this thread of the son who found out his estranged father had died nine months later, and was paid the value of the Estate when he contacted the Duchy).

Claimants have a long time to make a claim before they will be considered out of time. So the Duchy will hold the money in that reserve for a long time - at the very least six years, more likely ten or twelve years. So each year they will look at the amount in the reserve and assess how much is now considered able to be distributed because, realistically, no claimant will come forward. That amount is then transferred onto the Benevolent Fund in Cornwall, and the other specified locations in the case of Lancaster.

What we see in the accounts then is the amount received each year, and also the amount paid out to its ultimate destination. These don’t correlate - because they are not the same funds. The monies shown in the accounts as coming in 2023 may sit in the reserves for a decade before they are passed on. In that decade, the monies received in 2023 are likely to be reduced as valid claims on them are made. The monies that are shown in the accounts as paid to out to charities in 2023 are not the monies that were received in 2023 - they likely date back to 2013, and possibly older still. So you can’t draw a straight line and say “moneys in don’t match moneys out and we can see the charities are getting next to nothing”. Because you are comparing apples with oranges.

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:23

Good to see CathyorClaire here, yes! Whilst we don't agree on everything H&M related, her posts are always worth reading, and we agree on a lot!

I'm pondering a reply to your post of 0948 @Iwantcakeeveryday because it's interesting how and why RF support is unwavering for some, and is certainly worth discussion.

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Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:26

(with a proportion kept back in case the light-fingered royals were blindsided by a hitherto undiscovered rellie).

The Duchies complying fully with their legal obligations as a trustee by law is summed up like this.

This is why I don’t find the arguments of the republicans on this thread remotely persuasive. If you strip away the pejorative and the emotion and look more analytically at the things you are criticising, I’d find that a lot more compelling. Throwing mud without insight? Not for me, thanks.

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:27

@Serenster your first paragraph is beyond patronising. Why do you have to be like this with posters? It's not nice. And I know that.

We know all this. It's the fact it doesn't just go to charity. That is the point.

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Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:30

Roussette, my post was responding directly to Novella, who tagged me and started her post to me with this:

I don’t want to keep referring back here but @Serenster YOU mentioned the solicitor general not me. No doubt it was thrown in to attempt to add some legitimacy to the feudal ripoff ( yes I know there are 3 bodies that claim bona vacantia 1 the state and 2 being the Windsors )

I don’t find that nice either. I didn’t have a go at Novella personally though (unlike you to me just now), I just responded to her argument. I’d appreciate the same from you, thanks.

Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:33

The other point that has not been raised so far is that up to the point where the money is distributed after 10 years or so, the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall are doing exactly what the Treasury Solicitor’s team does for the rest of the country. The only difference is at the point that the Treasury Solicitor pays the money over to HMT.

It’s civil servants and government departments, paid for by taxpayers that do all the work outside the Duchies. It’s Duchy employees paid for by the Duchy, that does all the work in their areas. So they are actually taking an administrative burden off the taxpayer.

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:35

I know how it comes across.

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Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:37

So the Duchy will hold the money in that reserve for a long time - at the very least six years, more likely ten or twelve years.
The interest paid to the Duchy on that must be enormous

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Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:39

So they are actually taking an administrative burden off the taxpayer.

That is funny! We should be grateful? I don't think so!

If it were all going to local charitable causes or community funds, I would feel different.
It isn't. It's going on upkeep and modernising of properties that bring in an income stream to Charles.

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Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:39

The interest paid to the Duchy on that must be enormous

For the last ten years? With a base rate at less than half a percent? No.

Novella4 · 25/11/2023 10:39

@Serenster

Im afraid all that effort you went to is wasted.
The ‘royals’ know they are rumbled . I await the PR flurry with Charles at a soup kitchen

Please tell the journalists to down their pens ! It’s all fine !
There are links !

Also your last point is just laughable . Now Charlie is saving the tax payer by doing having all his admin done by his taxpayer funded staff !

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:40

Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:39

The interest paid to the Duchy on that must be enormous

For the last ten years? With a base rate at less than half a percent? No.

The Bank of England base rate is currently 5.25%

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Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:41

I did think it was quite a funny point too. 😀 But if you’re going to throw around allegations in the highest possible language, well, why not include all the point?

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:42

Now Charlie is saving the tax payer by doing having all his admin done by his taxpayer funded staff !

Yes of course, I missed that. Given the taxpayer funds the RF, I really don't think we should be going down the route of how magnanimous they are saving the taxpayer money by doing admin on deceased people's estates in order to keep the money at the end!

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Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:43

The Bank of England base rate is currently 5.25%

I know. But if you are talking about interest earned on long term holdings, you need to look at more than the last year…

Duchy of Lancaster Theft
Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:44

Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:43

The Bank of England base rate is currently 5.25%

I know. But if you are talking about interest earned on long term holdings, you need to look at more than the last year…

Don't you think I know that?! Seriously?! I have savings, I have adult children with mortgages, I have an IFA in our family!

The interest now on my meagre savings is very very good. Of course it wasn't back then but come on....

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Serenster · 25/11/2023 10:46

So by the same token, why did you think I don’t know the current base rate?

And Roussette, how do you know the moneys transferred from the reserve fund by the Duchies to the various funds don’t include the accrued interest anyway?

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:46

Bottom line is... money grows money. The fact interest rates were poor for a number of years is irrelevant. I doubt very much whether it is plonked into an easy access internet account!

There are very many ways to grow money.

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Novella4 · 25/11/2023 10:46

I’m not sure if you have missed the point deliberately or not @Serenster

All the folderol and detail blah blah is beside the point . I’m sure the account still are beautifully presented

A bit like Charles and Camilla with their robes and jewels if you are impressed with that sort of thing .
But behind the facade are the facts

There are two bald facts

1 The royals’ are chasing down the estates of the intestate ( whose relatives could not be found) and claiming them . That is feudal and offensive . That needs to be stopped
2 we were told this money that they claimed from the dead was going to charity ( ‘signed off ‘ ). We now know it was not . A tiny % was. So the ‘royals’ say it goes to charity and the u questioning nod and accept it . Accurate but misleading in action again

Roussette · 25/11/2023 10:48

For the last ten years? With a base rate at less than half a percent? No.

You said this, whilst omitting the fact it is now 5.25%. That's all. It's important.

Interesting one, on the accrued interest, I'd like to know that.

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