The Line of Succession

[PrincessTigger]

I think the Succession to the Crown Act needs to be updated so that a) members can request their removal from the line, and b) anyone on the line who has become so compromised they could never actually do the job if called upon can be removed by MPs. If there were a series of terrible accidents, Andrew for example could never seriously become King.

I think the removal of primogeniture also needs to be applied retrospectively not just Charlotte onwards.

No matter how unlikely it is that they should be called upon, I think it’s ridiculous that they still get the perks of being in the line of succession while destroying their own credibility to actually do that role. Perhaps we’d have gotten better behaviour from certain Dukes of York if they’d known there was a chance to lose their place.

anyone on the line who has become so compromised they could never actually do the job if called upon can be removed by MPs.

If Charles isn't compromised enough for you to think he's unfit you must have exceedingly low standards.

The entire point of having a monarchy is that Charles, Harry, Andrew or whoever are in line because of their birth, not their qualifications.

Wanting democratically elected representatives to choose a head of state who is worthy goes against the whole spirit of the monarchy. The patriotic thing is for the UK head of state to be whichever venal posho is next in line.

I didn't think Parliament had been asked to consider removing anyone from the role of Counsellor of State.

Just that they had dealt otherwise with the absent Harry/unacceptable Andrew issue by adding Prince Edward and Princess Anne

Jean-Marie Lustiger was the Jewish Cardinal of Paris and many people thought he could have been Pope. His story is very interesting. Although he converted to Catholicism he said he was born a Jew and would always be a Jew. I think he died in 2007.

I think it's meant to reassure the people who worry about King Andrews reign. Of applied retrospectively it would go Queen Anne instead, then King Phillip.... I think that would also be the death knell but perhaps with fewer headlines... But req the death of Charles, William, all three kids, Harry and his two. Seems a little over reactionary

But surely that just proves my point, he would have had to convert to Catholicism....

I didn't think Parliament had been asked to consider removing anyone from the role of Counsellor of State.

Just that they had dealt otherwise with the absent Harry/unacceptable Andrew issue by adding Prince Edward and Princess Anne

There was an initial flurry of parliamentary activity on the Counsellors Of State Bill with the alleged intention of doing both.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63824510

As I said, now stalled and Harold and the revolting Andrew remain ensconced while Anne and Edward are still outside in the cold.

Still, I suppose it made Charles look like a decisive man of action at the time.

He became a Catholic, he remained a Jew. That was his belief. He wrote his own epitaph:
I was born Jewish.
I received the name
Of my paternal grandfather, Aaron
Having become Christian
By faith and by Baptism,
I have remained Jewish
As did the Apostles.
I have as my patron saints
Aaron the High Priest,
Saint John the Apostle,
Holy Mary full of grace.
Named 139th archbishop of Paris
by His Holiness Pope John Paul II,
I was enthroned in this Cathedral
on 27 February 1981,
And here I exercised my entire ministry.
Passers-by, pray for me.
† Aaron Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger
Archbishop of Paris

So he follows in the footsteps of the Apostles who were also still Jewish and if he had been elected Pope he wouldn't have been the first Jewish Pope.

I have to say I did like the idea of him being Pope, a Jewish Pope seems an excellent example of faiths being able to come together although he was more conservative in his beliefs than I am.

I'm not a royalist and would be happyily bolish the lot of them but if you believe in the monarchy then you have to.accept the line of succession
The whole point of it is that the first born becomes the monarch regardless if how cut out they may or may not be for it.

abolish*

Thanks for the information, but I looked him up and he apparently claimed that he considered being Jewish as an ethnic designation, and not just a religious one. So it's not really the same thing.

My point still stands that it would be inappropriate to have a person who fully practices a different faith as a leader of a religion, such as the King is the figurehead of the Church of England being of a different faith and practicing that.

And I disagree that it would an example of faiths coming together, not everything has to be inclusive.

@CathyorClaire The Bill was enacted by RA on the 6/12/2022 so is law - the Act only ever intended to add Anne and Edward and not remove anyone else.

You may have been thinking of a couple of backbench MPs who were tabling (can't recall if it was a debate or a private members bill) their own suggestions around line of succession.

That’s correct, we’re considered an ethnoreligious group. Judaism is the religion which is practiced by many but not all Jews (there are plenty of secular ie atheist/agnostic/non-practicing Jews too). We also have a shared history, culture, food, sense of humour, and 2 languages, so Judaism is important but if you convert or if you’re non-religious you’ll always be a Jew.

But what if your Dad was Jewish and your mother was a Gentile? Yes, I know I'm off-topic and might be shouted at, but plenty of threads meander here and there.

Depends! Traditionally it’s matrilineal so if your mother is a Jew, you’re a Jew (this is it in my case - my dad is not Jewish). Nowadays the vast majority of Jews also consider it the other way around too - so if your dad is a Jew, you’re a Jew. And you’re as Jewish as anyone with two Jewish parents :)

That's so interesting. Apologies for derailing the thread btw.

Sorry, stupid question, but if Harry removed himself from the line of succession, would Archie and Lili remain, or would they also be removed?

The Bill was enacted by RA on the 6/12/2022 so is law

Ah, yes. So it is.

Doesn't look like anyone's told the royals though...

Counsellors of State | The Royal Family

I think they should remain until/unless they decided to remove themselves (or unless parliament removed them)

the Act only ever intended to add Anne and Edward and not remove anyone else.

Which looks suspiciously like keeping your enemies close.

They remain.

People sometimes get a bit muddled because Edward VIII abdicated on behalf of himself and his descendants. There's a tendency to overlook that when he made that statement he had no DC (and indeed had not yet married). He was making it clear that any (hypothetical) DC would not be in the succession.

So if Harry abdicated/quit from the succession, the two extant DC would remain in the succession because they were born in to it. Any hypothetical future DC, born after he abdicated, would not join the succession (assuming they follow the Duke of Windsor pattern)

Also becoming Roman Catholic and dropping out of the line of succession does not affect the rights of children already born to that convert who were brought up and remain Protestant. It will, however, affect those born later and baptized Catholic.

You don't have to be a royalist to be interested in who the Head of State is or might be.

The Mail has commissioned a poll which shows a majority of the public are in favour of removing Prince Harry from the line of succession. Presumably Andrew would have scored even higher. So I don’t think there would be a huge amount of outcry to updating the line of succession, as long as the RF members was unpopular enough (and the criteria for doing it would mean they really would be)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12401269/Most-Brits-say-Harry-stripped-place-5th-line-throne-blocked-King-new-poll-shows.html

I think she may have been. And from memory I think it more about Yorkshire MPs not wanting to be associated with Andrew.

And once again, the King (or Queen) has nothing to do with Acts of Parliament. It had nothing to do with "making Charles look like a man of action" - he had nothing to do with it.

There may have been discussions - but anyone with half a brain could see it's eminently responsible to reduce Andrew's influence as a CoS, and Harry no longer lives in the UK so wasn't really suitable to fully commit to the role. Anne & Edward were.

I agree with this. If you want to start picking and choosing Heads of State, then just elect them. We would probably have a ceremonial Head of State like Ireland do. If you want a Monarchy then you just have to suck it up. No crying about Princess Diana wanting William to be King instead of Charles. You get Charles, then William.