Part 2: The Press & The Royals a discussion

[Whaeanui]

Following on from this thread: Part 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4786923-the-press-the-royals-a-discussion?page=1

As we know, the press often manufacture stories to create divisions between the women in the family, more often than the men. They have also hacked private communications, with cases ongoing. The public seem to feed off this and none of the family get treated very well except the monarch-although not always.

For discussion: do we think it is possible for the royal family to stay relevant and in the publics mind without their unhealthy relationship with the media, and how can they achieve that? How will previous and current legal proceedings alter the relationship?
Please do not intentionally derail this thread by discussing your personal dislike of particular family members or if they deserve it. I would really like to continue this discussion on how the royal family and the press interact, as above.

Because he's the archetypal rich posh boy and has never been in line to the throne?

@Whaeanui

Where is your credible source for Tom being a drug dealer

Ifs quite a nasty rumour to insinuate about someone without prof

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65425215

Prince Harry believed his battles with the tabloid press put him at risk from a public that had been turned against him, depicting him, in his own words, as a "thicko", "cheat", "underage drinker" and "irresponsible drug taker".

Problem I have here is Harry's public statements, book interviews and behavior have also contributed to this view of him.

I think many of the intelligent claims are originally base on supposed comments from his late Mother and his frankly lacklustre educational results - plus later claims by one of his teachers in an employment turbinal they'd basically done the work.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/feb/14/schools.publicschools#:~:text=The%20employment%20tribunal%20investigating%20the,secure%20his%20place%20at%20Sandhurst.

Harry accuses the press barons of creating a "stalemate society, where they can enrage the public over the most mundane and petty things, to distract from the critical issues for our country and communities".

Personally I would have thought Brexit lies coverage and it's continuing aftermath would have been a wakeup call to those in the public who needed it.

Though social media is also rift with this stuff - I think the problem is people enjoy the petty disputes though I also think many are still painfully aware of larger problems.

Thing is I do believe the media has behaved badly - they have form for this and should be held to account - just not so sure of Harry credibility on anything - the judges comment of worrying inconsistences and the late Queen's recollection's may vary don't help Harry's image.

Any expectation of deference was blown away by the publication of some passive-aggressive emails, showing the Palace as increasingly frustrated by a lack of reply from the newspaper group.

Article does seem to suggest the relationship between palace and press it actually quite strained.

I don’t know where all this chat about his intellect comes from, is it based on academic ability?

Not really; as you rightly suggested, academic ability's really not the same as workable, worldly intelligence
For me it's more about what comes out in his own words and actions - interviews, speeches, the book and so on, plus the fact that his stories so often contain inconsistencies (as now noted by the judge)

Let's face it. Some people think if they say something it becomes true. Tom admitted to cocaine use. It's not unusual for people in their youth to take drugs. I smoked cannabis and took a few 'tablets' but that doesn't make me a drug dealer or an addict.

Tom Parker Bowles will never generate the same interest in the UK let alone abroad as Harry does. No one cares about him, or his children, and rightly so. Therefore the tabloids leave him (relatively) alone.

Tom, has publicly admitted taking marijuana, cocaine and ecstasy, and rumoured at least to supply it,
It was widely reported at the time, after he was recorded offering to supply drugs as well as admitting taking it, in The Times, BBC, Guardian & tabloids. Several Ex college friends sold stories to tabloids saying he was known to supply. He was also arrested for possession. He apologised, has talked about it all numerous times and never denied the reports at the time or since.

@Whaeanui

Are you talking about 24 years ago, when he was caught out (a sting operation by a paper)

Rather than doing a worldwide interview at 40 talking about how great drugs are

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10224407/amp/Ghislaine-Maxwells-accuser-paid-set-Tom-Parker-Bowles-1999-cocaine-sting.html

Because her son isn't a prince, because he isn't 5th (I think Harry is 5th?) in line to the throne, because when she joined the royal family he was an adult where many people have been interested in Prince Harry since he was a baby. Could be lots of reasons, I'm not an avid royal fan but I can recognise all the main members of the family, I wouldn't recognise the Queens son if I fell over him. I imagine lots of people might feel the same.

This is absolutely at the heart of it.

If they can make or break political careers as well it means they rule the country.

Sorry! Me again. This is also why they have framed his book as a kiss 'n tell, and him as a bitter whiny jealous person.

It is to completely undermine him.

I read it.

I missed the revenge bit.

I did read an excellent examination of trauma and grief on the young.

I read an excellent discusion on armed forces people and their re intergration into society.

I read an excellent analysis of the state of the media in modern Britian and the danger of it.

@Howsimplywonderful he got arrested 4 years before that for possession of cocaine and ecstasy as well, and there have been numerous stories regarding his supplying and continued use. Harry hasn’t been talking about how great cocaine and ecstasy are. He’s been talking about ayahuasca, you know what that is right? A well studied and indigenous medicine which helps anxiety and trauma. He also uses a legal drug where he know lives, it’s legal in many parts of the world. If you drink alcohol then you’re no different. He’s never been arrested for possession like the Queens son.

*I missed the revenge bit.

I did read an excellent examination of trauma and grief on the young.

I read an excellent discusion on armed forces people and their re intergration into society.

I read an excellent analysis of the state of the media in modern Britain and the danger of it.*

Me too, it’s pretty much how I would sum it up. You can tell who has read it.

If they can make or break political careers as well it means they rule the country.

Yes @4plusthehound absolutely. Which brings us back to the excellent Malcolm X quote

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.”

and one I think describes what has driven their decision to leave:

When a person places the proper value on freedom, there is nothing under the sun that he will not do to acquire that freedom. Whenever you hear a man saying he wants freedom, but in the next breath he is going to tell you what he won’t do to get it, or what he doesn’t believe in doing in order to get it, he doesn’t believe in freedom. A man who believes in freedom will do anything under the sun to acquire . . . or preserve his freedom.

Some great posts on here. This is how I saw the book too.

I got some of this.

However he also said he was an unreliable narrator and it always pays to think why people are saying and writing what they do as well as how they know the information - and with some events he is an eye witness writing about his experiences other times he's not it's his views.

I think it clear he had many reasons partly to make money and generate publicity for other future ventures , partly to garner sympathy towards his view of the world and party to put his thoughts out there and yes partly to take occasional pot shots as his family who he clearly has issues with.

The whole you can't trust main stream media idea was popularised by Goebbels as it meant people were then encouraged to read Nazi propaganda instead it's worrying so many push this idea on so many subject areas with few caveats such always evaluating biases or suggestions to widen sources of news or employ any critical thinking.

There are issues with papers in UK - but their influence is declining with their sales - even so they do still influence the national debate as it were and in that respect while Harry has a case picking a fight is a high risk strategy.

TBH with all media there are wider issues for example getting housing and renting issues on national debate has been an uphill struggle because until recently it wasn't affecting people higher up in the media and it's only as it's affecting their kids and GC and more and more junior staff that we get more new items.

Also providing so much click bait source material to help with paper sales is very much feeding the beast.

Harry did say he took cocaine, can't remember if it was the book or the tv interview he did with that therapist.

Harry was talking about taking marijuana in California since moving there. He was very fond of the spliff after the kids were in bed.

It’s very early days for Ayuahausa, it has not been studied yet in enough detail by proper scientific methods

I would be delighted if it was proven to have benefits but it needs more science less Harry anecdote at this point

Similar claims were made by Timothy Leary in the 60’s and that didn’t work out so well

It’s very early days for Ayuahausa, it has not been studied yet in enough detail by proper scientific methods

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666915321000251

Conclusion: Drinkers of Ayahuasca in naturalistic settings perceived remarkable benefits for their affective symptoms in this survey assessment. There is no obvious evidence of negative mental health effects being associated with long-term consumption. Additional randomized controlled trial evidence is required to establish the efficacy of Ayahuasca in affective disorders, and to understand the worsened symptoms reported by a small percentage of drinkers.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-61169-x

www.psypost.org/2021/06/ayahuasca-use-associated-with-greatly-improved-anxiety-and-depression-symptoms-in-large-international-study-61315

focus.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.focus.20200047

Ayahuasca improved self-perception of speech performance in socially anxious individuals. These effects occurred independent of task-related anxiety and REFE, suggesting that ayahuasca could specifically improve the cognitive aspect of speech performance. Further studies should try to unveil the mechanisms involved in the effects of ayahuasca and to better understand its effects on anxiety.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34166299/

Ayahuasca has long been used for indigenous healing and spiritual rituals.

Marijuana is legal in California. It’s no more of a drug than alcohol.

@Whaeanui

Yes, I’m not a fan personally.

Neither am I, I don’t drink at all, but almost everyone does drink regularly.

I may be mistaken here but I read it as him taking an experimentaldrug to ease his pain and he found consolation.

It was simply one of the many roads he walked when dealing with his grief.

I did not see it as him campaigning for it to be freely available.