Part 2: The Press & The Royals a discussion

[Whaeanui]

Following on from this thread: Part 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4786923-the-press-the-royals-a-discussion?page=1

As we know, the press often manufacture stories to create divisions between the women in the family, more often than the men. They have also hacked private communications, with cases ongoing. The public seem to feed off this and none of the family get treated very well except the monarch-although not always.

For discussion: do we think it is possible for the royal family to stay relevant and in the publics mind without their unhealthy relationship with the media, and how can they achieve that? How will previous and current legal proceedings alter the relationship?
Please do not intentionally derail this thread by discussing your personal dislike of particular family members or if they deserve it. I would really like to continue this discussion on how the royal family and the press interact, as above.

@kirinm Don't talk nonsense. The vast majority of guns are held legally. DH has one and has to jump through multiple hoops to guarantee their security. Gun crime in the UK is extremely rare.

Ross Kemp.

Unlike America, when there is a mass shooting and nothing changes in their gun laws, the UK tighten up gun laws. After Dunblane there was a massive tightening of regulations.

Illegal gun ownership though is definitely on the rise, but still small.

Whaeanui, I have always been struck by the fact that the UK and NZ police are both part of a very small number of countries where police aren’t routinely armed. I have always been thankful I lived in societies where that was the norm.

I used to work in A&E and the sight of armed police was a regular occurrence as we did get numerous stabbing (inner city), and believe me the weapons (assault rifles?) were scary.

I live in South London. There are lots of guns and a lot of gangs. You've either lived an extremely sheltered life or are being deliberately obtuse.

Given how terrible and untrustworthy the Met police are, the thought that they may one day be allowed guns is slightly terrifying.

Yes I can’t imagine living with fully armed police and the thought is a bit terrifying. NZ Police I would seriously worry about, and there’s been some interest in changing that so I don’t take it for granted it will always stay this way. Having said that, I do understand that if police are risking their lives not being armed when gangs are, that they would want to be too. I just hate the thought.

yes! I think we would end up with similar problems to the US honestly.

I'm not suggesting gun crime is rife (Google suggests c11k gun crimes in London between 2017 and 2022) but it happens and to pretend it doesn't is nonsense.

So Omid Scobie says when he was on work experience in the newspaper office he was shown at the showbiz office desk how to hack into voicemails. Really? I thought it was private investigators who did the hacking? Is he really a reliable witness when he denied he had a relationship with Harry and Meghan, and didn't communicate with then when writing Finding Freedom? And why these unsubstantiated revelations now and not at the time? Fishy.

London is bad but West Midlands has big issues with gun crime and gangs too.

@kirinm I was born in south London, so not sheltered!

I was referring to your statement 'anyone using a gun tends to be criminal'. I'll say again the vast majority of guns are held legally and there are strict gun laws to control them.

I'm fairly ignorant about crime outside London tbh but guns are not owned only by those who have been vetted and given a license. Gangs quote obviously have access to and use guns.

Last week / two weeks ago, a woman was shot in Brixton by someone she didn't know. Shot in the daylight and murdered. Not gang related at all.

Harry’s first judicial review is because he wants to be included in that small category which is always protected, no matter the assessed threat level. Interestingly, even when he was a working royal, he wasn’t in that category. So in effect, he is now demanding a higher level of security than he had when he was actually a working royal and living in the UK

I'm not sure I'd twigged that he wasn't in the "always protected category" when over here - though I probably should have done - so goodness knows why RAVEC would come to a different decision even if the review changes the actual process of deciding

Though no expert in these matters the deciding on a case by case basis has always seemed to me pretty reasonable, and as so often it's Harry's expectation of everyone bending to what he wants which appears to be the sticking point

Doubtless though, if it doesn't go his way, it'll be deemed another example of everyone being against him and probably the media's fault

Apologies if that's what you meant but you also said gun crime is rare and I beg to differ on that point. Not as rife as knife crime and obviously nothing like the US at all.

... why these unsubstantiated revelations now and not at the time?

I think Scobie said he's at "a different place in his career now" (whatever that's supposed to mean)?

Like others his story appears to change according to what suits - it's what makes him yet another unreliable witness - so if it ever happened, seeing him being cross examined by a real professional would be just glorious

His point was, I think, that it was freely discussed at the mirror despite what Piers Morgan claimed. I think (not sure on this point) is that his evidence relates specifically to whether the editor of the mirror knew about the hacking. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe that didn't happen but proving it may be difficult.

To be fair to him, he also said he knew that giving evidence would cause him major issues. Which it no doubt will.

I think Scobie said he's at "a different place in his career now" (whatever that's supposed to mean)?

Ahhhh I’m guessing that it means an intern with no career exposing a common practice would have their career possibly ended depending on if it were taken seriously. I don’t expect a 20 something year old to take this hacking thing on.

@kirinm Yes, gun crime is frightening. It's a status symbol in gangs and I think they are imported illegally, which should make control easier, but doesn't seem to be working.

@kirinm Morgan has always been very confident they can’t prove it, he’s still saying there isn’t any evidence so he must have a reason to be so confident about it and I don’t think it’s because he wasn’t involved.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe that didn't happen but proving it may be difficult

Agreed, kirinm, and that's the sticking point right there

I always smile at these types trading accounts of "who knew what" though; Piers is no better, and another one who's story changes to suit, but then so do Harry's

Bring on the cross examinations (if only!!)

Scobie said it was literally done at the showbiz desk, being shown how to physically hack into calls. Yet they have said it was done by private investigators? Does it make sense in a busy office environment newspaper, editors and journalists would be openly discussing criminal activities with an intern? Someone on work experience who wasn't even an employee? I can understand OS saying nothing, but that?

Piers Morgan just turned a blind eye, and printed the stories.

I’m guessing that it means an intern with no career exposing a common practice would have their career possibly ended depending on if it were taken seriously

You could well be right, Whaeanui, though somehow I doubt there's much chance of anyone with sense ever taking Scobie seriously

He was spot on about giving evidence potentially causing him "major issues" though - especially, as said, if he's cross examined

Does it make sense in a busy office environment newspaper, editors and journalists would be openly discussing criminal activities with an intern? Someone on work experience who wasn't even an employee?

Given Scobie's febrile imagination, perhaps he thought they instantly spotted his unique insight/talent and were happy to share their methods with such an obvious future star?