What do you want as head of state for the UK

[wordler]

We are a mixed bag of pro and anti-monarchy on here so I've created a little poll to see at a glance were we stand:

https://poll-maker.com/Q72KOF2ZL

I've added a Something Else option as I ran out of what I thought were all the possibilities.

It's anonymous but feel free to expand in the comments.

I think the late Queen socialised with the Wilsons so may be not so clear cut!

Surely if we’ve learnt anything from Brexit it should be not to hold referenda on things where one side is a completely undefined
unknown? And not to present complex constitutional questions as a simple binary.

I agree. You're not supposed to say this, but you can't trust the electorate to inform themselves well enough to vote on really important matters. Sorry, but that's what I think and Brexit proves it for me. I think this problem has got worse over the last 40 years too - somehow people are far less savvy than they were when there were only 2/3 TV channels, no Netflix and no SM.

And of all the problems we face in the UK today (never mind the world) is the monarchy really the issue? As you say, making a change to a presidential system would be huge and very disruptive...to gain...what? A smug feeling that we're a more modern country? The UK has always been innovative in so many fields - I really don't think being a monarchy has held us back.

WatchOutMissMarpleIsAbout · Today 07:49

Yes, - you're absolutely right! I always find that very endearing and funny. She hit it off with Harold Wilson, but not with Edward Heath!

I think Harold Wilson and Churchill were the only PMs she socialised with in a private capacity.

I posted this on another thread in the night so have c&p here - hope that’s not against the guidelines:-

I reckon the monarchy has saved us ‘the taxpayers’ millions- we’ve not had to elect a HoS every 4/5 years.

A coronation may boost the U.K. economy with bunting, plates etc. A HoS funeral to gather other HoSs to showcase the U.K. can’t be all bad.

As for the MET there were loads in London today as there was a climate March in Piccadilly- I got caught up in it as I was meeting friends.

Probably where my £1.75 or whatever has gone to. It sure as hell hasn’t gone to the NHS whatever that liar Johnson said. Yes I’m still bitter about Brexit.

If we couldn’t deal with leaving the EU when we had only been a member for a few decades imagine the costs and negotiations to become a republic. I’ll stick with a constitutional monarchy until a better solution presents itself.

And no that doesn’t necessarily make me a monarchist just a realist.

I am, ethically/morally, a republican but in practical terms I don’t want to abolish the monarchy - not at the moment anyway. Having seen the shitshow of Brexit and everything that came after I have absolutely no appetite for any more major constitutional reform, which is nearly always ballsed up it seems. Plus our very questionable choices of PM lately make it unappealing to hand the executive even more power.

Yeah it’s unfair/elitist etc but many things aren’t a choice between perfect and bad, they’re the choice between bad and even more bad.

I'm a republican and think having a royal family is disgraceful. Get rid off the lot of them and open up their palaces to the public. Elect a Head of State, pay them a wage and let them get on with their job without dehumanising them.

I quite like our current arrangement - I think it's a very elegant way to make sure the political remains abstracted from the constitutional. Well, in theory anyway. Boris abused that.

However, it is frustrating that, out of all the families in the commonwealth, it's the Windsors that occupy the position. Charles and Anne are fairly good, but the rest seem to think it's either massive hassle (William), something to rail against (harry) or something to wangle in return for perks (Andrew).

However, there have been far, far worse royals in the past. We can't complain when our poor ancestors had to put up with Henry VIII and George IV!

'the greatest argument against democracy is to spend 5 minutes with the verge voter.'
Winston Churchill

cupcaske123 · Today 08:04
I'm a republican and think having a royal family is disgraceful. Get rid off the lot of them and open up their palaces to the public. Elect a Head of State, pay them a wage and let them get on with their job without dehumanising them.

Most of 'their palaces' ARE open to the public!! And they're not owned by the RF personally.

Have you read the points and arguments on this thread? It's way, way more complicated than waking up one day and saying 'Let's abolish the monarchy'. I find that many self-styled republicans just don't think it through.

Average voter.

I like the current arrangement. After some
of the shit shows we have witnessed in the past ten years (Brexit/Covid/Truss et al) it was actually quite nice to have a constant figurehead above all the madness. I preferred the Queen’s Covid speech to any given by a politician. And I still giggle at Charles’ “back again, oh dear oh dear” at Liz Truss. That was exactly how I felt at the whole shambles.

@bellac11 you are right, @Theunamedcat is wrong.
The Monarch is Head of State.
The Prime Minister is Head of Government.

DelectableMe · Today 08:29
@bellac11 you are right, @Theunamedcat is wrong.
The Monarch is Head of State.
The Prime Minister is Head of Government.

And another point about the advantages of having a non-political HoS is that that person can take on all the state visits abroad - deploying soft power, diplomacy, trade delegations and general PR for the UK. The poor old PM just wouldn't have time for this - and neither would a HoS who was actively involved in the politics of the UK.

Also - if you elect a HoS, especially a political one, you'll get some good, statesmanlike ones and some stinkers. I think the whole of the UK was thrilled to host the Obamas, but most people (including the Queen who couldn't stand him) hated having Trump over here.

Dabralor · Today 08:17
'the greatest argument against democracy is to spend 5 minutes with the verge voter.'
Winston Churchill

Yes, and didn't he also say that 'democracy is the worst form of government ever invented except for all the others!'

The points and arguments in a sub forum on the Royal family?

Did you know that until 1968, the Queen didn't appoint, 'coloured immigrants or foreigners' to clerical roles? Or that the royal family is exempt from racist and sexist discrimination law?

Charles is exempt from 160 laws which extend to privately owned assets and businesses. That there are 30 laws preventing the police entering private royal estates. He's not liable for income tax, capital gains tax or inheritance tax.

Did you know that more than a 1,000 laws have been vetted by Charles and the Queen. Laws that 'affect the prerogative or interests of the crown.'

Do you like the fact that their inherited position means scandals such as Andrew, Philip's racism and Megan's accusations of racism impact the reputation of the UK around the world.

How about the £100, 000, 000 spent on the Coronation during a cost of living crisis where people were having to choose between heating and eating.

What about the fact that the royal family benefited from colonial wealth. That they profited directly from trade deals through customs duties. Or the fact that members of the royal family were sympathetic to the Nazis.

Having a system of hereditary power at the top of the countries political, military and religious institutions perpetuates class division and inequality. They can't be held to account and don't belong in a modern democratic society.

What about the fact that the royal family benefited from colonial wealth. That they profited directly from trade deals through customs duties. Or the fact that members of the royal family were sympathetic to the Nazis

In the 1930s you'd have been hard pressed to find someone who wasn't. Churchill was anti-appeasement and very much a political loner because of it.

Having a system of hereditary power at the top of the countries political, military and religious institutions perpetuates class division and inequality. They can't be held to account and don't belong in a modern democratic society

Name me one society - one - that hasn't had class division and inequality. And you might want to define what you mean by those first.

Critical of the RF employment policies in 1968?!
Have a look at the contemporary employment policies in the Civil Service, Education and the NHS at the time. Also the pay differentials.
The RF were not outliers.
Can you not find a more up to date criticism?.

cupcaske123 · Today 10:08
CoffeeCantata · Today 08:19
cupcaske123 · Today 08:04
I'm a republican and think having a royal family is disgraceful. Get rid off the lot of them and open up their palaces to the public. Elect a Head of State, pay them a wage and let them get on with their job without dehumanising them.

Most of 'their palaces' ARE open to the public!! And they're not owned by the RF personally.
Have you read the points and arguments on this thread? It's way, way more complicated than waking up one day and saying 'Let's abolish the monarchy'. I find that many self-styled republicans just don't think it through.

The points and arguments in a sub forum on the Royal family?

Yes - what are you suggesting is wrong with that? This is a discussion forum - aren't we supposed to engage with each other's points, or are we all operating in an echo-chamber or vacuum? Fascinated that you don't think any of us are worth engaging with! I wonder why...

Your points are all old news, and pretty desperate. Times have changed beyond recognition since 1968. You need to deal with the world as it is now, not as it was 60 years ago.

Cupcaske - I don't want to disillusion your touching faith in republican/left ideologues, but did you know that Nye Bevan (a man I otherwise admire) was very pro-appeasement?

Yes, please

If we're going to keep the Monarchy, I'd strip them of their powers; to appoint bishops to the House of Lords, to view draft legislation before giving consent, to be excluded from laws which apply to the rest of us etc.

Parliament is sovereign.
The King cannot make or amend laws.
Such power as he has, is determined by Parliament. As such, it is easily amended.

That made me laugh. Someone clearly wasn't around in 1968 if they think the RF was in any way unusual there; or if they think laws against racism and sex discrimination even existed.

He spent his life in a cage making the best of the situation he was in

If that's a cage and making the best of the situation then it was a pretty cushy number. And one that on a huge number of occasions he gave every sign of enjoying, and from which he did such things as establishing the Prince's Trust, touring the world and indulging and publicising his interests.

I mean, it's not exactly a The Man in The Iron Mask existence, is it?