Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The royal family

The Press & The Royals: a discussion

1000 replies

Whaeanui · 17/04/2023 12:25

As we were just having a great discussion on this topic I’m going to try again to continue it on a thread of its own. A previous thread highlighted two particularly prolific ‘royal reporters’, but the same is true for all. They often manufacture stories to create divisions between the women in the family, more often than the men. The public seem to feed off this and none of the family get treated very well except the monarch. So do we think it is possible for the royal family to stay relevant and in the publics mind without their unhealthy relationship with the media? Can social media replace this? What do you think they can do to make positive changes that would reflect an understanding of the mental health challenges the media intrusion results in? Also their role in charities that deal with mental health and misogyny, mistreatment of women etc could be impacted by this too. Thoughts?
Please do not derail this thread by discussing your personal dislike of particular members or if they deserve it. I would like a discussion on how the royal family could change the relationship with the press.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
45
Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 17:41

Just catching up again and this is such an interesting topic for a thread. Thank you for it op!

I particularly like the Malcolm X quote from an pp about press manipulation. Talk about ahead of his time and so insightful!

And I am very interested indeed in the linked Noam Chomsky book. Thank you to the pp who recommended it.

And the insights about the patholization (spelling?) of Harry’s mh are so obvious now you look at it. Using mh issues to undermine someone’s credibility is incredibly wicked imho. One would have thought that our understanding of mh conditions had evolved somewhat from that position, especially from those who are meant to be supporting the work of mh charities.

I don’t want to derail the main topic and I apologise if I did so before. Sometimes there are so many of these threads running simultaneously I forget which one I am following!

However in response to the poster below who said:

Not to mention the bullying that William reportedly experienced when his beloved mother did the interview. I can't believe so many people just dismiss what William says because to them Diana is a saint and can do no wrong. It's as though they think they know better than her own son. But if we were to judge her based on her actions as a mother, what Diana did was a pretty crap thing to do to her kids.

I’d just like to reply that making your wife and your dc live a lie in public and pretend to all the crowds and photographers and the world in general that you are a happy family and that there are no problems between your parents when you know that at home your mother is devastated and ten minutes after she drives out of the gate at Highgrove, your father is seen welcoming and entertaining his mistress, that is a profoundly crap thing to do to your kids and psychologically damaging to boot.

Have you thought of the psychological pressure those children would have been under if Diana had towed the line and hadn’t spoken up?

Even worse when you gradually realise as you grow up that your father’s close cohort of establishment friends are coming out in public with statements against your mother, that she is “a loose cannon” and even a close friend of your beloved grandmother referred to your mother as “damaged goods”. Imagine how those headlines went down at Eaton College!

And what good (and in this instance powerful and influential) father allegedly allows or even vaguely encourages their friends to speak ill of their children’s mother, no matter what their thoughts are in private.

Imagine growing up realising that your mother’s relationship to the establishment was basically “collateral damage”.

I think Harry has remained remarkably amiable given what he went through as a child. I guess the tension dividing him from his brother and vice versa is aligned somehow to the realisation that William will forever be separated from him as part of the establishment, whereas he as an outsider can look at the establishment’s actions with more objectivity, especially given how it treated his mother and then his wife. William as heir cannot allow himself that dubious luxury.

I am a little sceptical of pps comments about C&C and W&K becoming the new fab four. I tend to agree with the poster on here who predicts that we will see increasingly negative briefings against Kate. A depressing thought.

Roussette · 22/04/2023 17:48

I am a little sceptical of pps comments about C&C and W&K becoming the new fab four. I tend to agree with the poster on here who predicts that we will see increasingly negative briefings against Kate. A depressing thought.

Never in a million years would they be a 'fab four'! I think Kate is the glue that holds the RF together. Without her what would they be? So wherever the briefing might come from, they need to beware

Inkanta · 22/04/2023 17:49

Have you thought of the psychological pressure those children would have been under if Diana had towed the line and hadn’t spoken up

Absolutely. Keeping family secrets and family myths is unhealthy. Openness and honestly is the best policy and can prevent the trauma being passed on to the next generation.

Whaeanui · 22/04/2023 17:51

@Wingedinsectsunite yes, one of many excellent insights from Malcolm X.
Using mh issues to undermine someone’s credibility is incredibly wicked imho. One would have thought that our understanding of mh conditions had evolved somewhat from that position, especially from those who are meant to be supporting the work of mh charities.
Couldn’t agree more, this is a reflection of wider society though and I see it a lot within friendships and family relationships of people I know. I see it in the media regarding public figures a lot, not just the royals but everyone. I don’t think we’ve gone as far as we think we have in relation to how we speak about mental health.

OP posts:
Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 17:53

MrsMaxDeWinter · 22/04/2023 16:56

You are so observant.

It's royals as celebrities, isn't it. Makes you understand why the most "unpopular" royals are also the most click baity.

It's like an unscripted reality show where the tabloids can't stop writing about the "hate" figures.

I don’t think a monarchy is compatible with the 21st century tbh. It was workable when you could maintain an air of mystery and your subjects were deferential. Now virtually every one of them carries a phone camera and are all too aware of familial dysfunction. You can’t carry on allowing the public access to the happy bits such as foreign tours, weddings and jubilees, and then try and cover up or try and prevent interest in the bad bits, such as potential racism, potential infidelity, friendships with dubious people and murky sponsorship deals.

And sorry but no children - absolutely no children anywhere - should be subjected to media scrutiny. Ever.

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 18:02

Whaeanui · 22/04/2023 17:51

@Wingedinsectsunite yes, one of many excellent insights from Malcolm X.
Using mh issues to undermine someone’s credibility is incredibly wicked imho. One would have thought that our understanding of mh conditions had evolved somewhat from that position, especially from those who are meant to be supporting the work of mh charities.
Couldn’t agree more, this is a reflection of wider society though and I see it a lot within friendships and family relationships of people I know. I see it in the media regarding public figures a lot, not just the royals but everyone. I don’t think we’ve gone as far as we think we have in relation to how we speak about mental health.

Yes, sadly, I agree there is still a lot of prejudice surrounding mh in the workplace, in society at large and even within the medical profession! There is a lot of misogyny connected with it too.

Roussette · 22/04/2023 18:03

Inkanta · 22/04/2023 17:49

Have you thought of the psychological pressure those children would have been under if Diana had towed the line and hadn’t spoken up

Absolutely. Keeping family secrets and family myths is unhealthy. Openness and honestly is the best policy and can prevent the trauma being passed on to the next generation.

I so agree with this. My DPs were past masters at this and it made me just desperate to know, and worried me enormously. I wish I could tell a story here, but it's too personal. I am, hence, very open with my DCs.

MrsMaxDeWinter · 22/04/2023 18:05

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 17:53

I don’t think a monarchy is compatible with the 21st century tbh. It was workable when you could maintain an air of mystery and your subjects were deferential. Now virtually every one of them carries a phone camera and are all too aware of familial dysfunction. You can’t carry on allowing the public access to the happy bits such as foreign tours, weddings and jubilees, and then try and cover up or try and prevent interest in the bad bits, such as potential racism, potential infidelity, friendships with dubious people and murky sponsorship deals.

And sorry but no children - absolutely no children anywhere - should be subjected to media scrutiny. Ever.

Don't know if you watched the Harry and Meghan Netflix series but one of the most poignant moments for me was footage of the boys being trotted out to be photographed by the press, with Eugenie and Beatrice. The girls looked dazed, and a young Harry's voice can be heard asking "Are you all right Eugenie?"

It's changed now, but I hate that part of the accommodation is that pictures of the kids are given "voluntarily". This picture of Kate in front of the photographers when she had George always give me the chills.

The Press & The Royals: a discussion
derxa · 22/04/2023 18:12

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 17:41

Just catching up again and this is such an interesting topic for a thread. Thank you for it op!

I particularly like the Malcolm X quote from an pp about press manipulation. Talk about ahead of his time and so insightful!

And I am very interested indeed in the linked Noam Chomsky book. Thank you to the pp who recommended it.

And the insights about the patholization (spelling?) of Harry’s mh are so obvious now you look at it. Using mh issues to undermine someone’s credibility is incredibly wicked imho. One would have thought that our understanding of mh conditions had evolved somewhat from that position, especially from those who are meant to be supporting the work of mh charities.

I don’t want to derail the main topic and I apologise if I did so before. Sometimes there are so many of these threads running simultaneously I forget which one I am following!

However in response to the poster below who said:

Not to mention the bullying that William reportedly experienced when his beloved mother did the interview. I can't believe so many people just dismiss what William says because to them Diana is a saint and can do no wrong. It's as though they think they know better than her own son. But if we were to judge her based on her actions as a mother, what Diana did was a pretty crap thing to do to her kids.

I’d just like to reply that making your wife and your dc live a lie in public and pretend to all the crowds and photographers and the world in general that you are a happy family and that there are no problems between your parents when you know that at home your mother is devastated and ten minutes after she drives out of the gate at Highgrove, your father is seen welcoming and entertaining his mistress, that is a profoundly crap thing to do to your kids and psychologically damaging to boot.

Have you thought of the psychological pressure those children would have been under if Diana had towed the line and hadn’t spoken up?

Even worse when you gradually realise as you grow up that your father’s close cohort of establishment friends are coming out in public with statements against your mother, that she is “a loose cannon” and even a close friend of your beloved grandmother referred to your mother as “damaged goods”. Imagine how those headlines went down at Eaton College!

And what good (and in this instance powerful and influential) father allegedly allows or even vaguely encourages their friends to speak ill of their children’s mother, no matter what their thoughts are in private.

Imagine growing up realising that your mother’s relationship to the establishment was basically “collateral damage”.

I think Harry has remained remarkably amiable given what he went through as a child. I guess the tension dividing him from his brother and vice versa is aligned somehow to the realisation that William will forever be separated from him as part of the establishment, whereas he as an outsider can look at the establishment’s actions with more objectivity, especially given how it treated his mother and then his wife. William as heir cannot allow himself that dubious luxury.

I am a little sceptical of pps comments about C&C and W&K becoming the new fab four. I tend to agree with the poster on here who predicts that we will see increasingly negative briefings against Kate. A depressing thought.

I think William and Harry were fed up with both their parents' behaviour. They famously invited Tiggy Legge-Bourke to the Eton summer picnic instead of either of their parents. I was Diana's greatest fan but to paint her as a saint and Charles as a devil is childish.

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 18:19

MrsMaxDeWinter · 22/04/2023 18:05

Don't know if you watched the Harry and Meghan Netflix series but one of the most poignant moments for me was footage of the boys being trotted out to be photographed by the press, with Eugenie and Beatrice. The girls looked dazed, and a young Harry's voice can be heard asking "Are you all right Eugenie?"

It's changed now, but I hate that part of the accommodation is that pictures of the kids are given "voluntarily". This picture of Kate in front of the photographers when she had George always give me the chills.

Oh gosh MrsMaxDeWinter no I haven't watched the Netflix series yet. How upsetting.

And I hadn't seen that photo. That is scary indeed! We are so used to seeing all of the images filtered through media lenses, it's so enlightening to see it from the other side!

There have been occasions on the TV news when there has been a glitch with the sound recording and you get to hear the ferocious whirl and click of the cameras instead of the newsreader's voice and that is terrifying enough. That photo is something else though!

I don't think all the riches in the world are worth that level of press scrutiny. Imagine being aware of Instagram accounts devoted to analysing the body language of your four year old. I very much admire Kate's poise, professionalism and fortitude. I wouldn't allow my DC to be put through it though. Not in a million years.

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 18:27

derxa · 22/04/2023 18:12

I think William and Harry were fed up with both their parents' behaviour. They famously invited Tiggy Legge-Bourke to the Eton summer picnic instead of either of their parents. I was Diana's greatest fan but to paint her as a saint and Charles as a devil is childish.

Oh Derxa please. Is that the best argument you have available?

You say the same thing on almost every thread. Please point out to me on this thread where I have mentioned Diana being a saint? I have not. In fact her honesty about her unhappiness and dysfunctional relationship was one of the things that made her so popular with the public. She was no saint and didn't pretend to be.

And inviting TLB to an Eaton picnic was probably a sensible move designed to avoid press interest or accusations of favouritism and sheds no light on anything deeper than that.

Whaeanui · 22/04/2023 18:32

@MrsMaxDeWinter oh that photo of Kate is shocking! No woman should be put in that position after giving birth. Why on earth do the royal family give in to this? I can’t see how that was actually necessary.

OP posts:
Roussette · 22/04/2023 18:40

Whaeanui · 22/04/2023 18:32

@MrsMaxDeWinter oh that photo of Kate is shocking! No woman should be put in that position after giving birth. Why on earth do the royal family give in to this? I can’t see how that was actually necessary.

I find it absolutely bizarre, why do it? It's usually about 24 hours after giving birth or thereabouts. It's horrible! Why do they have to do this? I hope to god things change before W&K kids have babies.

Beatrice and Eugenie, for instance, put out pics on SM of a foot or a hand of tiny baby. I know they aren't direct heirs of anything, but a photo taken in your own time is so much better.

Whaeanui · 22/04/2023 18:46

I just don’t get where the pressure is coming from to do it, media? Release a photo and tell them to wait a few days. It’s obscene to make a woman do that. I think with one of the children it was 8 hours later, hair all beautiful! I mean. It’s unnecessary to me.

OP posts:
Roussette · 22/04/2023 18:54

Whaeanui · 22/04/2023 18:46

I just don’t get where the pressure is coming from to do it, media? Release a photo and tell them to wait a few days. It’s obscene to make a woman do that. I think with one of the children it was 8 hours later, hair all beautiful! I mean. It’s unnecessary to me.

It's the thirst of the great british public, sadly. (not all of them obviously, I find it invasive and awful)

MrsMaxDeWinter · 22/04/2023 18:57

I don't get the pressure either to be honest. Which is why when Meghan was being lambasted everywhere for not doing it, I thought good for her.

She talks about asking why they couldn't do it differently, and what they said was that she had to go to the Lindo because they could not use the Portland. Why? Because the photographers would get in the way of the ambulances there, but the Lindo had easier access as the entrance opened out on to a street. Imagine choosing where to give birth based on whether its convenient for the photographers!

Serenster · 22/04/2023 19:40

And inviting TLB to an Eaton picnic was probably a sensible move designed to avoid press interest or accusations of favouritism and sheds no light on anything deeper than that.

Probably not, actually. A story that one of Diana’s own friends told after her tragic death was how, when Diana met William for lunch in London before heading off for another holiday with on the Al Fayed yacht, she was in tears when he came to meet her at KP because she was so upset that he’d invited Tiggy Legge-Bourke to Eton’s sports day the week before. Poor William…

Serenster · 22/04/2023 19:47

She had to go to the Lindo because they could not use the Portland. Why? Because the photographers would get in the way of the ambulances there.

That’s a quite unbelievable story though, for several reasons. Firstly, Sarah Ferguson gave birth to both her daughters at the Portland, rather than the Lindo. She had photos taken with both her daughters as she left the hospital.

Additionally , the Portland is a private hospital. It does not accept ambulances - it only performs urgent care by appointment. So the need to keep the entrance clear for ambulances is simply wrong.

Roussette · 22/04/2023 19:49

I just hope that any member of the RF does not have to do this again. It's barbaric.

Go home. Take a pic. Release it

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 20:05

Serenster · 22/04/2023 19:40

And inviting TLB to an Eaton picnic was probably a sensible move designed to avoid press interest or accusations of favouritism and sheds no light on anything deeper than that.

Probably not, actually. A story that one of Diana’s own friends told after her tragic death was how, when Diana met William for lunch in London before heading off for another holiday with on the Al Fayed yacht, she was in tears when he came to meet her at KP because she was so upset that he’d invited Tiggy Legge-Bourke to Eton’s sports day the week before. Poor William…

Well I would love to know the source of that story Serenster please.

And yes poor William because I am fairly sure that most children would prefer an actual parent at sports day rather than a friend of the family.

Also, I'm afraid I can't overlook the "another holiday" jibe. I read that Diana was very worried at the time because she found it so difficult to find safe places where she could take William and Harry on holiday and afford them proper protection. Her friendship with the Fayeds offered her that opportunity.

If Martin Bashir had not forged seventy two documents "proving" that her staff and others were conspiring against her she might have run with royal protection but sadly in those circumstances she wasn't sure who she could trust. A truly awful position to be in.

Serenster · 22/04/2023 20:24

@Wingedinsectsunite it’s from Dianadaybyday on twitter (who scrupulously sources everything they post) and who themself credits Penny Junor’s biography of William, recounting what the author was told by one of Diana’s friends.

There was no jibe intended in “another holiday” by the way - I just meant to indicate that this was after the first holiday Diana had spent on the Al Fayed yacht with Dodi that summer. The lunch was on 21 August - just 10 days before she died. It was the last time William saw his mother, sadly.

And yes, Mohammed Al Fayed talked a good game about his security, but they were understaffed, underprepared, and not listened to by Mohammed or Dodi. And then behind the scenes Mohammed Al Fayed was tipping off the press about his son and Diana’s whereabouts. It’s a really sad story.

Serenster · 22/04/2023 20:29

Also, it wasn’t due to Martin Bashir that Diana didn’t accept police protection.

Diana dispensed with two of her Met Police protection officers in December 1993, then the remaining two in October 1994 after the IRA ceasefire.

Since October 1994, she had had no police protection at all - unless she was with William, who did have 24/7 police protection (Harry probably did as well at this stage too).

She didn’t meet Martin Bashir until 1995. So William may well have been correct when he said Bashir fuelled her paranoia (rather than created it).

(all of that comes from the evidence given by the Commssioner of the Met Police at Diana’s inquest, by the way)

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 20:33

Roussette · 22/04/2023 19:49

I just hope that any member of the RF does not have to do this again. It's barbaric.

Go home. Take a pic. Release it

Absolutely Roussette it's inhuman.

Wingedinsectsunite · 22/04/2023 20:52

Serenster · 22/04/2023 20:24

@Wingedinsectsunite it’s from Dianadaybyday on twitter (who scrupulously sources everything they post) and who themself credits Penny Junor’s biography of William, recounting what the author was told by one of Diana’s friends.

There was no jibe intended in “another holiday” by the way - I just meant to indicate that this was after the first holiday Diana had spent on the Al Fayed yacht with Dodi that summer. The lunch was on 21 August - just 10 days before she died. It was the last time William saw his mother, sadly.

And yes, Mohammed Al Fayed talked a good game about his security, but they were understaffed, underprepared, and not listened to by Mohammed or Dodi. And then behind the scenes Mohammed Al Fayed was tipping off the press about his son and Diana’s whereabouts. It’s a really sad story.

Ah yes, the fragrant Penny Junor! I am not on Twitter but I am not remotely surprised to hear her name mentioned in this context.

This is just a personal opinion, but I’ve always thought that the royal correspondents and commentators who have basically sold out for the money while pretending to maintain an air of intellectual curiosity, a particularly gruesome bunch.

I can’t comment about the Fayeds as I know nothing about them except they were subjected to rather a lot of nasty racism at the time of Diana’s death.

PreparationPreparationPrep · 22/04/2023 21:00

Roussette · 22/04/2023 19:49

I just hope that any member of the RF does not have to do this again. It's barbaric.

Go home. Take a pic. Release it

I agree - I remember Meghan was being pressured to come out for pictures with her very newborn, you could see she was uncomfortable in that press interview. Horrible thing to do. An announcement that mother and baby are well is fine followed by a picture released when they are ready!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.