Page 40 | The Press & The Royals: a discussion

Whaeanui · 2023-04-17T11:25:22+00:00

As we were just having a great discussion on this topic I’m going to try again to continue it on a thread of its own. A previous thread highlighted two particularly prolific ‘royal reporters’, but the same is true for all. They often manufacture stories to create divisions between the women in the family, more often than the men. The public seem to feed off this and none of the family get treated very well except the monarch. So do we think it is possible for the royal family to stay relevant and in the publics mind without their unhealthy relationship with the media? Can social media replace this? What do you think they can do to make positive changes that would reflect an understanding of the mental health challenges the media intrusion results in? Also their role in charities that deal with mental health and misogyny, mistreatment of women etc could be impacted by this too. Thoughts? Please do not derail this thread by discussing your personal dislike of particular members or if they deserve it. I would like a discussion on how the royal family could change the relationship with the press.

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 14:11

Wingedinsectsunite · 27/04/2023 13:29

I agree with many of these points but the tabloids benefit hugely from out of court settlements. It basically allows them to continue their nefarious practices without much hinderance behind closed doors, and without them becoming widely known, leading to their methods remaining unchallenged and unquestioned by the public at large.

It’s only because a few people who probably consider they don’t have anything more to lose, have decided to stick their heads above the parapet, that these murky practices become bathed in light.

As we see from the fascinating article linked by Skullbabe, the tabloids are more than just tinkering at the sides of politics, they are fully interfering with the democratic process.

That article is incredible actually:

(posting here again in case anyone misses it)
https://newrepublic.com/article/118750/rebekah-brooks-trial-demonstrates-how-power-works

And we just thought we were chuckling at Ed Milliband’s “tablet of commandments” when in fact we were looking at an exercise in personal destruction by the press.

And I think it has been pointed out on Mumsnet before that an article in the Evening Standard in 2014 cited that among the close coterie of friends who had Rebekah Brooks back during the phone hacking trial were: Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson, both of whom expressed fulsome delight at her acquittal. Yes, JC and PM, both friends and supporters of Camilla and strangely enough, the journalists who have written the most virulent articles against Meghan Markle. Isn’t that surprising?

And can I just drop in another one pls? Scroll down and you will find a few interesting words from the lovely Matt Hancock of all people as to why Leveson 2 has been shelved:

https://hackinginquiry.org/the-triumph-of-cynicism-the-suppression-of-leveson-ii/

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Tbh I fully support the media being held to account, and I absolutely loathe Ruper Murdoch as he's responsible for so much of the rise of right wing extremism and racism not just in the UK, but also in the USA and Australia. And no I've never supported the public harrassment of Meghan Markle by the likes of Piers Morgan and his ilk. As far as I'm concerned, that man has an unhealthy obsession with Meghan. I, however, would never blame the victims of phone hackings and media harrassment if they chose not to speak publically or if they chose to settle privately instead of fighting in court. Why should we force people (who don't want to) to relive their own trauma just to support a good cause? If harry wants to pursue this case against Rupert and the media then good for him, but I feel he is undermining his own case when he accuses his brother of nefarious secret deals or that his dad forced him not to pursue his case etc. The focus is now on William and his settlement instead of the wrongdoings of the media.

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:27

poppysockies · 27/04/2023 12:58

It never occurred to Harry that as a grown man, he should have taken time to understand fully what the phone hacking situation was about, instead of relying on others to do it for him and then getting mad when the outcome wasn't to his liking and then blaming his family for him missing out on the deadline. It’s also none of harry’s business that William and Kate chose to settle their claim privately. With a brother like Harry who needs enemies? This overgrown man child must be so exhausting to deal with in person. I can only imagine how Meghan must feel having to deal with him on a daily basis. Nothing is ever his fault, he's always the victim, and his supporters continue to fall for his act even when he's been exposed for his lies and inconsistent statements. These inconsistencies were even raised in court.

Spot on!

then blaming his family for him missing out on the deadline.

You should read the timeline between the Queen's head of PR and Thompson (head honcho for Murdock).

She was asking - FOR TWO YEARS - for a meeting.

Two years.

They eventually offered a chocie of dates - one was Harrys wedding the other was Commonwealth Day.

This is how they played with the Queen.

You are really missing the bigger picture here. This is much, much bigger than a public spat between brothers.

This is about a company that can castrate a democracy. It is about a weed that takes over the garden.

We all freak out about Putin et al but our own guy is IN THE BLOODY BUILDING.

The revelations are really shocking. We thought it was all cleaned up and tidy now. Actually - they just got worse. That is how brazen they are. And let's not delude ourselves. The same people caused so much civil unrest in the States that you had a (failed) but significant attemped coup that icluded murder.

They are bloody dangerous. We need to wake up.

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:27

MrsMaxDeWinter · 27/04/2023 13:52

@Whaeanui

Please do a second thread!

Meanwhile, this quote from a lawyer in a Daily Beast report explains why revealing the secret deal struck by William is legally relevant.

Some commentators have suggested that William’s settlement with NGN was fairly standard practice, and certainly speaking to William’s friends one gets the feeling that many of them believe Harry has revealed the settlement, at least partly, out of spite aimed at his brother.

But media lawyer Mark Stephens, a partner at leading law firm Howard Kennedy, told The Daily Beast that Harry’s decision to reveal his brother’s settlement, far from being an act of mere vindictiveness, made good legal sense. “NGN is essentially arguing that Harry is out of time, but Harry is making the argument that he delayed proceedings because of the secret deal, and the payment to his brother is part of the evidence that such a deal existed. The payment is important. It is a crucial piece of the picture which Harry and his lawyers are building which is that William and the other royals were cozying up to Murdoch while Harry was kept out of the loop because they suspected he would see it see it as his duty to fight.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-william-will-never-trust-harry-again-friend-says

Is receiving a settlement ‘cozying up’ now?

Were the other victims who settled cozying up, or just William?

As I said, I’d I were William, I’d never speak to him again. Especially after Harry admits William was fully supportive of him taking them to court.

It’s so ironic that this case is about privacy.

I mean, I highly doubt that he would, but could there be grounds for William to take action against Harry for revealing this information?
Just interested in how much you can get away with revealing about other people, if it’s relevant for your defence.

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:29

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:27

then blaming his family for him missing out on the deadline.

You should read the timeline between the Queen's head of PR and Thompson (head honcho for Murdock).

She was asking - FOR TWO YEARS - for a meeting.

Two years.

They eventually offered a chocie of dates - one was Harrys wedding the other was Commonwealth Day.

This is how they played with the Queen.

You are really missing the bigger picture here. This is much, much bigger than a public spat between brothers.

This is about a company that can castrate a democracy. It is about a weed that takes over the garden.

We all freak out about Putin et al but our own guy is IN THE BLOODY BUILDING.

The revelations are really shocking. We thought it was all cleaned up and tidy now. Actually - they just got worse. That is how brazen they are. And let's not delude ourselves. The same people caused so much civil unrest in the States that you had a (failed) but significant attemped coup that icluded murder.

They are bloody dangerous. We need to wake up.

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This is what I don’t get as well.

How can it be accused of being ‘cozying up’ or secret agreements, when they were clearly just being disregarded.

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 14:30

MrsMaxDeWinter · 27/04/2023 13:52

@Whaeanui

Please do a second thread!

Meanwhile, this quote from a lawyer in a Daily Beast report explains why revealing the secret deal struck by William is legally relevant.

Some commentators have suggested that William’s settlement with NGN was fairly standard practice, and certainly speaking to William’s friends one gets the feeling that many of them believe Harry has revealed the settlement, at least partly, out of spite aimed at his brother.

But media lawyer Mark Stephens, a partner at leading law firm Howard Kennedy, told The Daily Beast that Harry’s decision to reveal his brother’s settlement, far from being an act of mere vindictiveness, made good legal sense. “NGN is essentially arguing that Harry is out of time, but Harry is making the argument that he delayed proceedings because of the secret deal, and the payment to his brother is part of the evidence that such a deal existed. The payment is important. It is a crucial piece of the picture which Harry and his lawyers are building which is that William and the other royals were cozying up to Murdoch while Harry was kept out of the loop because they suspected he would see it see it as his duty to fight.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-william-will-never-trust-harry-again-friend-says

And why should we believe this claim that William and the other royals were cozying up to Murdoch just because William chose to settle?

I wonder what that “media” lawyer has to say about this latest update:

Prince Harry also claimed in his witness statement that there was a secret agreement between the royal family and NGN which he was only informed of in 2012.
Lawyers for the Duke claimed this alleged secret agreement kept Harry from bringing his own claim earlier.
However, judge Mr Justice Fancourt questioned "factual inconistencies" in the Duke’s witness statement and said it contradicted his original argument that he did not know about phone hacking on him until 2019.

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:31

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 13:15

What are you on about? The whole world knew that William and Kate’s phones were hacked, it was publicized that he informed the police of his suspicions hence the investigations and the legal claim against Rupert Murdoch and his media. Why should he be forced to talk to the media about it when his own actions publically exposed the hackings? Only harry and his supporters think that the optics look dreadful. It's ironic how you complain that you have the right to know about the royals privacy dealings against the media (even when said royals were the victims), yet complain on harry’s behalf that his privacy is being invaded just coz he was born a royal. Why is it any of your business if William preferred to settle privately instead of ‘speaking out’ as you say? He's not your dancing monkey just coz he was born into royalty. Everyone is entitled to their privacy, even the royal family. This settlement had nothing to do with public money being misused, it was to do with William and kate’s private conversations being leaked. you and there harry supporters continue to victimize William and Kate. This is the couple who not only had their phones hacked hundreds of times, but also had to deal with sexual harassment from the paparazzi, who had secret photos taken of them during their honeymoon, including topless photos, and yes even when they were in the midst of a sexual act when they thought they were alone (I remember seeing that leaked online). For harry to make it all about himself once again is just beyond the pale.

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He's not your dancing monkey just coz he was born into royalty.

This is true.

But he will be King one day.

Head of State.

Do we want a little leadership from him or just nice profile shots?

They speak about the environment - for me there are many issues with that.

Why not this?

skullbabe · 27/04/2023 14:32

AskMeMore · 27/04/2023 10:25

People are pretending to think that hacking phones is the same as writing your own memoir or doing a public interview. They know that one is criminal and the other is what loads of celebrities do every day.

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This is the thing that seems really apparent that many people cannot see the diffeence between the illegal accessing of private and personal information by members of the press and the recounting of conversations in a memoir. No wonder the press seem to be getting away with this.

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 14:44

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:27

Is receiving a settlement ‘cozying up’ now?

Were the other victims who settled cozying up, or just William?

As I said, I’d I were William, I’d never speak to him again. Especially after Harry admits William was fully supportive of him taking them to court.

It’s so ironic that this case is about privacy.

I mean, I highly doubt that he would, but could there be grounds for William to take action against Harry for revealing this information?
Just interested in how much you can get away with revealing about other people, if it’s relevant for your defence.

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If choosing to settle for an undisclosed amount is cozying up, then I guess prince Andrew’s victim Virginia was also cozying up to Andrew when she accepted his offer of settlement.

Original poster

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:44

This is the thing that seems really apparent that many people cannot see the diffeence between the illegal accessing of private and personal information by members of the press and the recounting of conversations in a memoir. No wonder the press seem to be getting away with this.

Is it that they cannot, or just don’t want to? Just don’t care if it’s someone they don’t like? If it’s not their private information?

OP posts:

Wingedinsectsunite · 27/04/2023 14:45

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 14:11

Tbh I fully support the media being held to account, and I absolutely loathe Ruper Murdoch as he's responsible for so much of the rise of right wing extremism and racism not just in the UK, but also in the USA and Australia. And no I've never supported the public harrassment of Meghan Markle by the likes of Piers Morgan and his ilk. As far as I'm concerned, that man has an unhealthy obsession with Meghan. I, however, would never blame the victims of phone hackings and media harrassment if they chose not to speak publically or if they chose to settle privately instead of fighting in court. Why should we force people (who don't want to) to relive their own trauma just to support a good cause? If harry wants to pursue this case against Rupert and the media then good for him, but I feel he is undermining his own case when he accuses his brother of nefarious secret deals or that his dad forced him not to pursue his case etc. The focus is now on William and his settlement instead of the wrongdoings of the media.

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I know it’s not really possible for William
to take the stand because of what else will be revealed in court (speaking generally not specifically !) but in another way, someone with the unique power and privilege that he has , really is in the best position to do so , and do something good for the other victims without means and position, while doing something good for the country as a whole.

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:46

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:29

This is what I don’t get as well.

How can it be accused of being ‘cozying up’ or secret agreements, when they were clearly just being disregarded.

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I know I am a terrible writter but am I that bad?

This is what you got from my post?

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:46

skullbabe · 27/04/2023 14:32

This is the thing that seems really apparent that many people cannot see the diffeence between the illegal accessing of private and personal information by members of the press and the recounting of conversations in a memoir. No wonder the press seem to be getting away with this.

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I totally get there is a difference legally.

However, personally and morally, I don’t know, I think I’d find it harder to deal with my brother revealing things as part of a memoir, because it’s an added betrayal (although don’t get me wrong, it would all be pretty shit)

Original poster

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:47

I posted earlier, many settled due to costs, Sienna Miller is one example and a good one because we would think of her as having reasonable wealth and she couldn’t afford to go to trial, but wanted to. Some could afford to, and didn’t want to because of other relevant issues, time and stress and more exposure of their privacy. It isn’t an easy choice for anyone but some people benefit from being quiet about it, more than others.

OP posts:

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:47

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 14:30

And why should we believe this claim that William and the other royals were cozying up to Murdoch just because William chose to settle?

I wonder what that “media” lawyer has to say about this latest update:

Prince Harry also claimed in his witness statement that there was a secret agreement between the royal family and NGN which he was only informed of in 2012.
Lawyers for the Duke claimed this alleged secret agreement kept Harry from bringing his own claim earlier.
However, judge Mr Justice Fancourt questioned "factual inconistencies" in the Duke’s witness statement and said it contradicted his original argument that he did not know about phone hacking on him until 2019.

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Gosh -what an interesting change in writing style!

That was quick1

Original poster

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:48

I’d be more annoyed if my brother leaked private things to a press that had hacked my whole family.

OP posts:

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:49

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:46

I know I am a terrible writter but am I that bad?

This is what you got from my post?

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No, sorry, I was adding this to the prior one about ‘cozying up’ and what you had posted refuted that.

I was saying how could the behaviour you posted then be turned into cozying up somehow .

(My posts are just a stream of consciousness I think) 😂

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 14:50

Novella4 · 27/04/2023 13:04

No
As I said , not a court case

Reveal what happened - don't take money and keep silent - speak out . Show some leadership !

Instead william did a deal that he kept secret . Why ?
Charles probably had a hand in this too .
No one is surprised though
And there will be worse to come

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Well William is entitled to his privacy, we have no right to know about his decisions about protecting his wife and family. It is funny that Harry's privacy seems so important but William's is not permitted.

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:51

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:48

I’d be more annoyed if my brother leaked private things to a press that had hacked my whole family.

Things like this are levied against William because of Harry, and yet he’s never provided a shred of evidence, or a single solitary example.

Original poster

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:52

Ah… yes he has.

OP posts:

Original poster

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:52

This is a new thread as this will close soon:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4794170-part-2-the-press-the-royals-a-discussion

Part 2: The Press & The Royals a discussion | Mumsnet

Following on from this thread: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4786923-the-press-the-royals-a-discussion?page=1 Part 1 ]]https://...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4794170-part-2-the-press-the-royals-a-discussion

OP posts:

skullbabe · 27/04/2023 14:54

Viviennemary · 27/04/2023 11:48

Judge says Harry's testimony contains troubling factual inaccuracies. Is that legalspeak for lies. Sounds like it could be thrown out.

The court case is:

Baroness Lawrence of Clarendon and others -v- Associated Newspapers

not Harry and others against Associated Newspapers

"In documents filed to court, her lawyers said Lawrence “cannot think of any act or conduct lower than stealing and exploiting information from a mother who buried her son for this reason”.
“She feels used and violated, and like she has been taken for a fool.”
Rather than campaigning due to a genuine desire to get justice for Stephen, she “now sees that the Daily Mail’s true interests were about self-promotion and using her and her son’s murder as a means to generate ‘exclusive’ headlines, sell newspapers, and to profit”.
“She wonders whether trusting the Daily Mail as she did caused her to have delayed or have failed her murdered son,” the documents say. “She asks herself whether more individuals could have been arrested, whether earlier investigations might have been more successful, and whether she could have got justice.”
The documents say Lawrence now “feels a deep sense of betrayal. She finds it hard to believe the level of duplicity and manipulation that was clearly at play, knowing now as she does that the Daily Mail’s outward support for her fight to bring Stephen’s killers to justice was hollow, and worse, entirely false”."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/27/doreen-lawrence-claims-daily-mail-hired-investigators-to-hack-her-phone

Please consider what this case is really about which is illegal activity by Associated Newspapers against Doreen Lawrence, Liz Hurley, Elton John, Simon Hughes, Sadie Frost and Harry. This is an important case and I hope that it does not get dropped and I should hope many of you would like Associated Papers and the rest of the media landscape held to account.

I don't know if Harry's claim can be dropped without affecting the others (I hope not) but if the claim is dropped it seems as if it would be due to a techincal issue - the time to claim has passes, not that Harry doen't have a claim at all.

The press/media issue is awful - we realy need a Leveson 2.

Doreen Lawrence claims Daily Mail hired investigators to hack her phone

High court also hears claims against Associated Newspapers brought by Prince Harry, Elton John and Liz Hurley among others

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/27/doreen-lawrence-claims-daily-mail-hired-investigators-to-hack-her-phone

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:55

Whaeanui · 27/04/2023 14:52

Ah… yes he has.

Please share, as I’ve never seen one, (and I’ve asked! Lol)

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 14:55

Delectable · 27/04/2023 13:46

Yet William feeds off these people. Collecting money from them and giving them emails and stories of M&H. Surely he could take a minute to remember how they treated his mother and other victims since then. It really is a shame.
Harry is worth many kings.
twitter.com/ArchewellBaby/status/1651203304171421696?s=08 Hugh Grant highlighted this dangerous beast needs to be dealt with as did Harry.

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What are the stories William has disclosed about Harry?

MamoruHisaishi · 27/04/2023 14:56

4plusthehound · 27/04/2023 14:31

He's not your dancing monkey just coz he was born into royalty.

This is true.

But he will be King one day.

Head of State.

Do we want a little leadership from him or just nice profile shots?

They speak about the environment - for me there are many issues with that.

Why not this?

Show quote history

Why should we force william and Kate to relive their own trauma and humiliation at the hands of the media just for the sake of ‘leadership’? Again, they were the victims here. They get to decide for themselves if they want to battle it out in court or to settle this privately. It’s none of our business. This had nothing to do with public funds being used nor was this to do with information that is relevant to the public. These were personal phone conversations between Kate and William and their family and friends. William clearly wants to move on from the incident, and if he wants to talk about the environment why should that be a problem?

PicturesOfDogs · 27/04/2023 14:57

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 14:55

What are the stories William has disclosed about Harry?

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Ive been asking this since Harry made the claim, and still waiting