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If Princess Charlotte had been born before Prince George...

61 replies

Thatsshallot1967 · 05/04/2023 14:00

If Charlotte had been born before George and was heir to the throne, would she have had a active 'page' or attendant role in the coronation or would that have gone to George? Anyone know?

I'm a fan of the RF and interested in all things ceremonial, first post on this board.

I realised a 'page' is traditionally male but could Charlotte have taken on this role if she had been heir to the throne?

I noticed (slightly disappointed) that the Queen Consort has a number of pages too, all male minor relatives and I wondered again why there are no female children, eg grandchildren featuring, if not as 'pages' but attendants.

OP posts:
L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:03

Boys are pages. End of.
Sex matters.

Original poster
Thatsshallot1967 · 05/04/2023 14:09

Yes I know pages are, traditionally, male but I'm wondering what might have happened if Charlotte had been heir to the throne. Would she have been an attendant and George taking a spectator role - which is what I believe Charlotte and Louis are doing.

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Pixiedust1234 · 05/04/2023 14:12

Its a good question to be fair. But I also think you are ignoring their ages. Would Charlotte be more involved if she was 14yrs for example.

JenniferBarkley · 05/04/2023 14:14

L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:03

Boys are pages. End of.
Sex matters.

In all the arenas the sex vs gender argument may matter, pages at the coronation feel some way down the order Grin

I imagine if Charlotte were the heir, some role would have been found for her. Given she isn't, I'm sure her parents are happy for her to attend with as little responsibility as possible on her shoulders.

MarshaMelrose · 05/04/2023 14:15

I thought I'd read that Camolla is having her 5 grandchildren (boys and girls) hold the canopy over her as she is anointed.

MarshaMelrose · 05/04/2023 14:16

I think you're underestimating Charlotte. She's probably in charge of the whole show and is running rehearsals as we speak. 😂

JaneJeffer · 05/04/2023 14:18

L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:03

Boys are pages. End of.
Sex matters.

What would happen in the future if George decided he was a "woman"? Grin

Original poster
Thatsshallot1967 · 05/04/2023 14:19

Pixiedust1234 · 05/04/2023 14:12

Its a good question to be fair. But I also think you are ignoring their ages. Would Charlotte be more involved if she was 14yrs for example.

George is only 9, the other pages are I think teenagers. He has the role as he is 1st in line, even considerably younger than the others, but if he'd only been 5 or 6 years, as heir, I'm not sure he would been a page.

I'm more interested in what might have happened constitutionally, if he was second in line and whether Charlotte may have had the active role as heir or if the first born male would have got it.

Also mulling over why the Queen consort only has male attendants.

OP posts:
Original poster
Thatsshallot1967 · 05/04/2023 14:20

MarshaMelrose · 05/04/2023 14:15

I thought I'd read that Camolla is having her 5 grandchildren (boys and girls) hold the canopy over her as she is anointed.

Ah interesting I didn't see that bit of detail.

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L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:26

Thatsshallot1967 · 05/04/2023 14:09

Yes I know pages are, traditionally, male but I'm wondering what might have happened if Charlotte had been heir to the throne. Would she have been an attendant and George taking a spectator role - which is what I believe Charlotte and Louis are doing.

I don’t think it would have changed anything. Elizabeth II wasn’t a page when her father took the throne, because she’s a girl.

L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:27

JaneJeffer · 05/04/2023 14:18

What would happen in the future if George decided he was a "woman"? Grin

Show quote history

He would probably be Georgina I

JenniferBarkley · 05/04/2023 14:27

I know there's a lot of tradition surrounding the coronation and some things are literally sacred and not open to change, but I'm sure attendants don't come under that heading.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/04/2023 14:29

MarshaMelrose · 05/04/2023 14:16

I think you're underestimating Charlotte. She's probably in charge of the whole show and is running rehearsals as we speak. 😂

And has them all feverishly practising to get it right first time because they don't want the hard stare I bet she has already perfected.

L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:29

JenniferBarkley · 05/04/2023 14:14

In all the arenas the sex vs gender argument may matter, pages at the coronation feel some way down the order Grin

I imagine if Charlotte were the heir, some role would have been found for her. Given she isn't, I'm sure her parents are happy for her to attend with as little responsibility as possible on her shoulders.

Show quote history

Her dad would have to be dead for her to be heir. We are all forgetting even if Charlotte had been born first, William is actually the heir. Neither George nor Charlotte are the heir at this point in time.

JaneJeffer · 05/04/2023 14:30

He would probably be Georgina
If only Sue Townsend was still here to write it.

JenniferBarkley · 05/04/2023 14:30

Well the heir to the heir then Grin

L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:31

“He has the role as he is 1st in line,”
George is 2nd in line. William is 1st.

Original poster
Thatsshallot1967 · 05/04/2023 14:33

L3ThirtySeven yes of course, I stand corrected. The Prince of Wales is heir and then George is second in line, Charlotte third. I think all that changes when William becomes king with George then becoming 'heir' to the throne and so on and so on.

There is an 'Heir Apparent' and an 'Heir Presumptive' but I cannot recall who is who.

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KnittingNeedles · 05/04/2023 14:35

I have three kids, boy/girl/boy like the Wales children, same age gap (but 10 years older).

My DD is most definitely in charge. She has had the "hard stare" since she was about 5 and keeps her brothers in line no problem. And she is the expert organiser in our house.

EdithWeston · 05/04/2023 14:37

Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret both attended the coronation of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (then aged about 11 and 7) but were not pages.

I expect that Princess Charlotte, if heir, would attend in that way, and none of the Wales DC would have been pages.

L3ThirtySeven · 05/04/2023 14:40

EdithWeston · 05/04/2023 14:37

Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret both attended the coronation of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (then aged about 11 and 7) but were not pages.

I expect that Princess Charlotte, if heir, would attend in that way, and none of the Wales DC would have been pages.

Me too, but you put it much better than I ever could or have.

CestTout · 05/04/2023 14:43

MarshaMelrose · 05/04/2023 14:16

I think you're underestimating Charlotte. She's probably in charge of the whole show and is running rehearsals as we speak. 😂

Haha love this! So true!!

EdithWeston · 05/04/2023 14:43

There is an 'Heir Apparent' and an 'Heir Presumptive' but I cannot recall who is who

The Heir Apparent is the one who is next in line, and who cannot be leapfrogged

The Heir Presumptive is the one who is next in line, but where there is a possibility (no matter how hypothetical) that a DC could be born higher in the line of succession who would become the heir.

So for example, ER II was never Heir Apparent, because there was always the possibility of another (male, as that then mattered) sibling being born, either to her mother or if her mother died to a new wife.

Nowadays it would still apply if the monarch had no DC, so their next youngest sibling would be Heir Presumptive (because if monarch went on to have DC then they would be next in line)

Prescottdanni123 · 05/04/2023 14:51

Traditionally, wouldn't the queen consort have had female attendants? Back in the day, she would have had ladies in waiting but that term is maybe a bit outdated now