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The royal family

Harry and Meghan have made life in the UK 'just that little bit grimmer', writes Andrew Marr

48 replies

Ticketyboots · 10/01/2023 18:26

Very interesting take on the whole complex situation

amp.lbc.co.uk/news/harry-meghan-uk-life-grimmer-andrew-marr/

Andrew Marr gives his views on the incendiary claims made by Prince Harry in a series of interviews

I want to hold my hands up high, surrender, give up and perhaps even apologise.
Right the way through the Harry and Meghan hullabulloo I’ve prided myself in ignoring it … It seemed to me an exercise in self-indulgent exhibitionism, cynically intended to lure us all into a private family fight and there was no obligation, I felt, for the rest of us to obediently jump right in.
As between team Sussex and team Wales, I’ve been resolutely don’t-care. Their sibling rivalry, their family feud, not ours.
Even though I’ve written a book on the Queen and, and interviewed both William and Harry, I refused to write or talk about this. But this evening, I have to acknowledge I was wrong.
Things have gone so far, and for better or worse the monarchy itself is now in play.

So, if you’ll forgive me, a few thoughts on this wretched business.

First, let’s start with the human and obvious. Harry and William are both deeply damaged people, for good reasons. They were brought up oddly and they lost their mother in the most traumatic circumstances, never having known her as well as they needed to.

And at this point I have to say Harry is completely right in pointing the finger at the media, British and foreign, in the way we pushed, and we shoved, and we nosed our way into their private hurt.

His account on ITV of the paparazzi milling about ghoulishly taking their shots as his mother lay dying is hard to listen to. But they were doing it because papers were paying for it, because they thought that’s what we wanted.

All of this, for the brothers, seems to have turned what had been painful enough into a lifelong and agonising trauma. Harry clearly sees the tabloid media as a vast octopus of evil, what he calls the antagonist.

Worse, he now believes this evil has been brought into his own family by the way others – in particular, Camilla the Queen Consort – feeds the monster to help her own position with us, the public.

Clearly, we can’t go all the way with Harry. He shows very little empathy for his brother William, who must be just as hurt, just as scarred, as he is. He tells the world that when William says to him at his grandfather's funeral I just want you to be happy, I love you, swearing on their mother’s memory, sacred words, Harry says he doesn't believe him.

How do you come back from that? He reveals the story of how William thumped him. He is proud he didn’t hit back, as he said William wanted him to.

But what he’s done since, on air and on the page, amounts to a much more ferocious beating meted out to William than Harry’s ever had. By accusing Camilla, his father’s wife of getting into bed with the devil – his phrase – it’s hard to imagine them standing near one another at the coronation, never mind the full reconciliation he claims to still to want.

But here is the final thing where he seems to me deluded: he claims still to be a supporter of the monarchy, 100%, and doesn’t think, apparently, he’s damaging the royal family itself.

Oh yes he is. He’s painting the rest of the Royals as cold, manipulative, cowardly because they hide behind media leaks, and deeply messed up.

If he’s right, I’d rather do without them. If he’s wrong then this is the most disgraceful, petulant and damaging smear of all time.

At any rate, it matters. We can’t pretend it’s tittle-tattle, or just look away. Since Harry got out of the family he’s used his ability to, in effect, create his own media empire – the Netflix documentary, the tell-almost-all book, the devastating broadcast interviews – to attack the rest of them and the British media. What he’s now said can’t go unanswered.

Have senior Royals been talking to journalists to smear Harry and Meghan? If that is how they behave, we will just see them differently. Even the paper flag-wavers will wave less enthusiastically.

Carrying on and saying nothing - stiff upper lip – never apologise, never explain – now looks like denial. It will suggest to me, and many more, that Harry’s right.

Cards on the table: I think he IS right in portraying the relationship between the house of Windsor and the media as corrupt. In its power to shape big stories, it’s like the old Downing Street lobby system before it was reformed, a system of vicious and anonymous attacks, which could never be cross-examined in daylight. Unfair. Wrong. Is that how Royal journalism operates in the 2020s? There are lots of grand organisations across print and broadcast journalism, with grand people in them. Well, they’ve got a real job to do now.

Let’s end with Harry again and with you. I feel a lot of sympathy for Harry – who couldn’t? – and in his TV interviews he came across as more thoughtful, open and frankly nicer than I’d expected.

But attacking people once so close to him so publicly – however angry and unloved he feels – is itself a profound failure of empathy, a failure of love which will, in due course, make him lonelier and less happy.

None of this means I’m particularly pro-William or pro the King for that matter. We should feel for them not because of their titles but as – if I can put it this way - fellow British citizens.

I know a lot of you listening will have drawn encouragement and support from the monarchy, emotional nourishment even, particularly during the reign of the Queen.

And this feud between brothers will make you feel miserable. At an unhappy, difficult time in our history, when so many are struggling so much, Harry and Meghan have made life in this country just that little bit grimmer. Thanks, guys.

OP posts:
DewinDwl · 10/01/2023 18:40

Fuck no.

Life in the UK is grim at the moment because of 10 years + of Tory goverments - defunding of the public sector, destruction of the NHS, shameless corruption and mockery of public institutions. Andrew Marr can't peg the current national mood on Harry and Meghan just because he is late to the party.

Harry is just raising questions about issues with the monarchy which TBF have been there for decades. If people chose to ignore them that's on them. It is fair to look at the current king and wonder if he the lying adulterer is the best person to hold the office of head of state and head of the church of England. It is fair to wonder if our class system is helping or hindering the country.

Boombaker · 10/01/2023 18:45

It's grim regardless of Harry and the Royals, poor of him to try and pin any declining mood on them instead of where its really due... government and society as a whole. It just feels like another inevitable part of the UKs decline. Sigh.

Yesthatismychildsigh · 10/01/2023 18:46

Andrew Marr is a completely out of touch idiot. People are struggling to pay bills and keep warm. The antics of a dysfunctional, over privileged idle family make things no worse. Most people wouldn’t care if the lot disappeared tomorrow. It is, for some, a welcome distraction though. The levels at which any of these people think we care are staggeringly deluded.

simplefree · 10/01/2023 18:48

it is great entertainment for me

Legrandetraitor · 10/01/2023 18:49

Yesthatismychildsigh · 10/01/2023 18:46

Andrew Marr is a completely out of touch idiot. People are struggling to pay bills and keep warm. The antics of a dysfunctional, over privileged idle family make things no worse. Most people wouldn’t care if the lot disappeared tomorrow. It is, for some, a welcome distraction though. The levels at which any of these people think we care are staggeringly deluded.

Can the 3 top posters read?!

he’s saying it’s grim here!!! He’s saying it’s a shit time in history. He’s saying they are adding to an already shit time, not creating it.

agree I’m finding it entertaining though

AuntieJoyce · 10/01/2023 18:51

The whole saga has been brightening my January to be fair. Speak for yourself Marr

BigBleep · 10/01/2023 18:52

he’s saying it’s grim here!!! He’s saying it’s a shit time in history. He’s saying they are adding to an already shit time, not creating it.

Anyone who's life is ruined by Harry's book is a bit sad to begin with. How does this make life grim? It's great entertainment!

LivelyBlake · 10/01/2023 18:57

Let’s end with Harry again and with you. I feel a lot of sympathy for Harry – who couldn’t?

He must be joking. The answer is millions. Anyone that has lost a mother, or that has a family member that is a narcissist, or a manipulator that makes family life unbearable, and still get on with their lives with dignity. Yes, with the help of therapy and maybe going NC, but with dignity and some class. There are lots out there.

DewinDwl · 10/01/2023 18:57

Yes I can read. Personally it gives me hope that this whole debacle is opening up a debate about the monarchy, making it more acceptable to have conversations about a Republic. So I don't think H&M make the country grimmer, on the contrary.

I think that part of the reason why some people are so incensed about the couple is that H&M are questioning the monarchy as it is and that's part of some people's identity - so they are literally taking it personally. It could be that Andrew Marr is one of those.

Legrandetraitor · 10/01/2023 18:57

BigBleep · 10/01/2023 18:52

he’s saying it’s grim here!!! He’s saying it’s a shit time in history. He’s saying they are adding to an already shit time, not creating it.

Anyone who's life is ruined by Harry's book is a bit sad to begin with. How does this make life grim? It's great entertainment!

He isn’t saying it’s ruining lives he’s saying it’s making things a bit more shit.

not for me, as I said. But people are twisting his words in quite an astonishing way

goldfootball · 10/01/2023 18:57

maybe we can campaign for Harry to get an OBE for services for entertainment.

anyone who is invested is loving the drama or else they would be ignoring it!

also wtf about getting encouragement and support from the royal family 😂

BigBleep · 10/01/2023 18:59

He isn’t saying it’s ruining lives he’s saying it’s making things a bit more shit.

Ok but why would this make his life shit, it's not his family😂he needs to get a life, sorry. And if it supposedly makes Harry look bad, then all the better, surely??

MarshaBradyo · 10/01/2023 18:59

simplefree · 10/01/2023 18:48

it is great entertainment for me

Me too

Mezmer · 10/01/2023 19:01

andrew marr does this well, he did similar on brexit. He aligns a story to the feelings of a nation a and gets straight to the heart of it. He’s quite left in his political viewpoints but we won’t hold that against him.

NowDoYouBelieveMe · 10/01/2023 19:02

I think it's great that people are finally questioning the role and nature of the British monarchy.

Only a couple of hundred years overdue.

ssd · 10/01/2023 19:08

I'm happy to see the royals self destruct.

Bring it on.

MarshaBradyo · 10/01/2023 19:09

Not sure they’re going anywhere. Monarchy support seems to be up but for poor old Harry it’s down

DNBU · 10/01/2023 19:19

Oh for god’s sake, this is such melodramatic bullshit.

MarshaMelrose · 10/01/2023 19:26

Andrew Marr's a journalist. Of course he wants the monarchy to answer. That means more stories, more counter arguments, more to write about.
He's just as big a bottom feeder as the rest of them.

Stickytoff · 10/01/2023 19:32

Is he right though? If what Harry says is the truth i.e. that it turns out to be true that his step mother (and to a certain extent then his father vicariously through allowing his step mother to do it) and if his brother briefed the press against him and his wife deliberately to make particularly Meghan look bad as they to look better, if proof came out that this happened would Harry be vindicated and would it spell the end of the Royal family? Would that be acceptable to people in the UK if it turned out to be true?

NowDoYouBelieveMe · 10/01/2023 19:33

MarshaBradyo · 10/01/2023 19:09

Not sure they’re going anywhere. Monarchy support seems to be up but for poor old Harry it’s down

What makes you say that? Are there any polls to suggest support for the monarchy is increasing because of this feud?

Swissmountains · 10/01/2023 19:52

I agree with Andrew Marr it is sad, twisted and horrible and miserable.

I don’t feel sorry for Harry or Meghan - I feel very sorry for their children and everyone that is being wounded by Harry’s attacks aimed and designed to deliberately hurt, and he is being paid to wound. Not unlike the chess pieces he described. Psychopathic tendencies.

MarshaMelrose · 11/01/2023 02:50

Stickytoff · 10/01/2023 19:32

Is he right though? If what Harry says is the truth i.e. that it turns out to be true that his step mother (and to a certain extent then his father vicariously through allowing his step mother to do it) and if his brother briefed the press against him and his wife deliberately to make particularly Meghan look bad as they to look better, if proof came out that this happened would Harry be vindicated and would it spell the end of the Royal family? Would that be acceptable to people in the UK if it turned out to be true?

If, if, if...
What about considering Harry is paranoid and has provided no evidence of any of it, despite a six hour documentary, a 500 page book and several interviews.

magicthree · 11/01/2023 03:53

Anyone who's life is ruined by Harry's book is a bit sad to begin with. How does this make life grim? It's great entertainment!

You must be very easily entertained. I can't see anything "entertaining" about it, it's just the usual woe is me story from a whiny entitled brat who doesn't seem to have a brain in his skull.

BigBleep · 11/01/2023 06:54

magicthree · 11/01/2023 03:53

Anyone who's life is ruined by Harry's book is a bit sad to begin with. How does this make life grim? It's great entertainment!

You must be very easily entertained. I can't see anything "entertaining" about it, it's just the usual woe is me story from a whiny entitled brat who doesn't seem to have a brain in his skull.

Doesn't stop you following the thread though. You're just as entertained as anyone else, no point pretending to be 'better than'