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The royal family

Harry and Meghan have made life in the UK 'just that little bit grimmer', writes Andrew Marr

48 replies

Ticketyboots · 10/01/2023 18:26

Very interesting take on the whole complex situation

amp.lbc.co.uk/news/harry-meghan-uk-life-grimmer-andrew-marr/

Andrew Marr gives his views on the incendiary claims made by Prince Harry in a series of interviews

I want to hold my hands up high, surrender, give up and perhaps even apologise.
Right the way through the Harry and Meghan hullabulloo I’ve prided myself in ignoring it … It seemed to me an exercise in self-indulgent exhibitionism, cynically intended to lure us all into a private family fight and there was no obligation, I felt, for the rest of us to obediently jump right in.
As between team Sussex and team Wales, I’ve been resolutely don’t-care. Their sibling rivalry, their family feud, not ours.
Even though I’ve written a book on the Queen and, and interviewed both William and Harry, I refused to write or talk about this. But this evening, I have to acknowledge I was wrong.
Things have gone so far, and for better or worse the monarchy itself is now in play.

So, if you’ll forgive me, a few thoughts on this wretched business.

First, let’s start with the human and obvious. Harry and William are both deeply damaged people, for good reasons. They were brought up oddly and they lost their mother in the most traumatic circumstances, never having known her as well as they needed to.

And at this point I have to say Harry is completely right in pointing the finger at the media, British and foreign, in the way we pushed, and we shoved, and we nosed our way into their private hurt.

His account on ITV of the paparazzi milling about ghoulishly taking their shots as his mother lay dying is hard to listen to. But they were doing it because papers were paying for it, because they thought that’s what we wanted.

All of this, for the brothers, seems to have turned what had been painful enough into a lifelong and agonising trauma. Harry clearly sees the tabloid media as a vast octopus of evil, what he calls the antagonist.

Worse, he now believes this evil has been brought into his own family by the way others – in particular, Camilla the Queen Consort – feeds the monster to help her own position with us, the public.

Clearly, we can’t go all the way with Harry. He shows very little empathy for his brother William, who must be just as hurt, just as scarred, as he is. He tells the world that when William says to him at his grandfather's funeral I just want you to be happy, I love you, swearing on their mother’s memory, sacred words, Harry says he doesn't believe him.

How do you come back from that? He reveals the story of how William thumped him. He is proud he didn’t hit back, as he said William wanted him to.

But what he’s done since, on air and on the page, amounts to a much more ferocious beating meted out to William than Harry’s ever had. By accusing Camilla, his father’s wife of getting into bed with the devil – his phrase – it’s hard to imagine them standing near one another at the coronation, never mind the full reconciliation he claims to still to want.

But here is the final thing where he seems to me deluded: he claims still to be a supporter of the monarchy, 100%, and doesn’t think, apparently, he’s damaging the royal family itself.

Oh yes he is. He’s painting the rest of the Royals as cold, manipulative, cowardly because they hide behind media leaks, and deeply messed up.

If he’s right, I’d rather do without them. If he’s wrong then this is the most disgraceful, petulant and damaging smear of all time.

At any rate, it matters. We can’t pretend it’s tittle-tattle, or just look away. Since Harry got out of the family he’s used his ability to, in effect, create his own media empire – the Netflix documentary, the tell-almost-all book, the devastating broadcast interviews – to attack the rest of them and the British media. What he’s now said can’t go unanswered.

Have senior Royals been talking to journalists to smear Harry and Meghan? If that is how they behave, we will just see them differently. Even the paper flag-wavers will wave less enthusiastically.

Carrying on and saying nothing - stiff upper lip – never apologise, never explain – now looks like denial. It will suggest to me, and many more, that Harry’s right.

Cards on the table: I think he IS right in portraying the relationship between the house of Windsor and the media as corrupt. In its power to shape big stories, it’s like the old Downing Street lobby system before it was reformed, a system of vicious and anonymous attacks, which could never be cross-examined in daylight. Unfair. Wrong. Is that how Royal journalism operates in the 2020s? There are lots of grand organisations across print and broadcast journalism, with grand people in them. Well, they’ve got a real job to do now.

Let’s end with Harry again and with you. I feel a lot of sympathy for Harry – who couldn’t? – and in his TV interviews he came across as more thoughtful, open and frankly nicer than I’d expected.

But attacking people once so close to him so publicly – however angry and unloved he feels – is itself a profound failure of empathy, a failure of love which will, in due course, make him lonelier and less happy.

None of this means I’m particularly pro-William or pro the King for that matter. We should feel for them not because of their titles but as – if I can put it this way - fellow British citizens.

I know a lot of you listening will have drawn encouragement and support from the monarchy, emotional nourishment even, particularly during the reign of the Queen.

And this feud between brothers will make you feel miserable. At an unhappy, difficult time in our history, when so many are struggling so much, Harry and Meghan have made life in this country just that little bit grimmer. Thanks, guys.

OP posts:
magicthree · 11/01/2023 09:18

Doesn't stop you following the thread though. You're just as entertained as anyone else, no point pretending to be 'better than'

I'm following a thread, not quite the same thing as reading the book is it? The thread actually is semi-entertaining, if only to see how many posters agree with my opinion of whinging Harry - I wouldn't read the book if it was given to me.

BigBleep · 11/01/2023 09:50

magicthree · 11/01/2023 09:18

Doesn't stop you following the thread though. You're just as entertained as anyone else, no point pretending to be 'better than'

I'm following a thread, not quite the same thing as reading the book is it? The thread actually is semi-entertaining, if only to see how many posters agree with my opinion of whinging Harry - I wouldn't read the book if it was given to me.

You're still interested👍

CulturePigeon · 11/01/2023 09:56

I could never understand people who swallowed H and M's rubbish even before Meghxit, but those who still defend them even now???

They have both shown us who they are SO many times. I wish they'd both disappear in a puff of smoke and never bother us again.

If anyone asks why I care (as some wag always does...) it's because I hate to see such nasty people thriving and taking in so many others for so long.

Bestcatmum · 11/01/2023 10:03

I'm quite a long way through the book pre Meghan and it doesn't look like the brothers were ever really close. I'm neutral really. I dont have any strong feelings either way but he's certainly action man and has been to the North and south poles. Comes across as quite reasonable so far. No so the press.

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/01/2023 10:05

I just can’t believe what I am reading!

What next - they are going to blame them for the war in Ukraine? And whilst at it, what about climate change - is that their fault as well?

Cattenberg · 11/01/2023 10:07

It’s time to phase the monarchy out. It’s a deeply dysfunctional anachronism.

Prince Harry shouldn’t be the final straw, though. That should have been Prince Andrew (and the Queen’s defence of him).

goldfootball · 11/01/2023 17:49

@Cattenberg it certainly was for me - I had always been neutral about the Queen until the Prince Andrew debacle. Changed me from a passive monarchist to someone who would happily see the end of the monarch in Britain. The obsequiousness towards ‘the institution’ 😉 that’s been on display since Harry’s memoir was leaked just beggars belief.

Cookzie · 11/01/2023 19:23

I agree about the brothers not being that close. I think unless people personally read the book, then they should be careful of commenting, because since listening ( still a bit to get through), it has re iterated for me just how badly out of context so many of those quotes and headlines about the book were, and in my opinion lends credit to the accusations about the British Press. Its a feeding frenzy, with money to be made by many journalists, news outlets etc. Sad to see a family destroyed. Wish them all well.
BTW. Remember when Charles was trying to get the Queen to step down so he could form a modern monarchy? Isn't that what is emerging, only he is now where his late mum was?

BrokeAsABone · 11/01/2023 20:30

Cookzie · 11/01/2023 19:23

I agree about the brothers not being that close. I think unless people personally read the book, then they should be careful of commenting, because since listening ( still a bit to get through), it has re iterated for me just how badly out of context so many of those quotes and headlines about the book were, and in my opinion lends credit to the accusations about the British Press. Its a feeding frenzy, with money to be made by many journalists, news outlets etc. Sad to see a family destroyed. Wish them all well.
BTW. Remember when Charles was trying to get the Queen to step down so he could form a modern monarchy? Isn't that what is emerging, only he is now where his late mum was?

I saw a lot made out of Harry saying he got the smaller bedroom at Balmoral....that tool Zac Goldsmith was hammering him about it, conveniently leaving out the very next line of the book. That Harry DIDN'T CARE.

Harry was quite right that the spin is dangerous, not his words.

Whenharrymetsmelly · 11/01/2023 20:35

Cookzie · 11/01/2023 19:23

I agree about the brothers not being that close. I think unless people personally read the book, then they should be careful of commenting, because since listening ( still a bit to get through), it has re iterated for me just how badly out of context so many of those quotes and headlines about the book were, and in my opinion lends credit to the accusations about the British Press. Its a feeding frenzy, with money to be made by many journalists, news outlets etc. Sad to see a family destroyed. Wish them all well.
BTW. Remember when Charles was trying to get the Queen to step down so he could form a modern monarchy? Isn't that what is emerging, only he is now where his late mum was?

Feeding frenzy is right. I see it now I these threads, it quite disturbing 😒

Bideshi · 11/01/2023 20:40

I think that if the UK does decide to get rid of the monarchy it ought to be A) because of proper grown up debate, and B) because it's what the British public have chosen to do, having weighed up the pros and cons. It shouldn't be because of a vendetta against it by people who hold deep and bitter grievances (and I make no judgement as to whether those grievances are legitimate: that's not really the point).

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/01/2023 20:45

'Context' is doing nearly as much work as 'accountability' and 'British tabloid press' these days.

MissTrip82 · 11/01/2023 21:36

That just reads as staggeringly naive.

Surprised to learn members of the royal family might be cold and unpleasant? Really? The whole point of a hereditary monarchy is that you get who you get. It’s not about being a good person, a kind person, an intelligent person, it’s about being born. Unfortunately these people have been born into an extremely dysfunctional family and that hasn’t helped.

And the only way a popular monarchy survives is by the will of the people. Knowing that, of course members of the family whose life and tremendous privilege rest on maintaining the status quo will seek to manipulate the media as an avenue to gaining popular support.

I have no idea how he thought the monarchy worked if this is so astonishing. What a fool.

welcome2023 · 12/01/2023 14:08

I've really enjoyed the drama
Who doesn't have a dysfunctional uncle, envious brothers. Bitchy sister in laws etx
Hugely amusing

Just think he's so likeable I don't know why
Just doesn't rake himself seriously does he
Quite refreshing

BellatrixLestrangesHeatedCurlers · 12/01/2023 14:50

Ahahah so Marr's lost his marbles over this too. Fucking hell.

BellatrixLestrangesHeatedCurlers · 12/01/2023 14:52

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/01/2023 10:05

I just can’t believe what I am reading!

What next - they are going to blame them for the war in Ukraine? And whilst at it, what about climate change - is that their fault as well?

Turns out they are also Jack the Ripper (both of them, taking it in turns). Harry eats babies as a pre-workout snack.

jays · 12/01/2023 14:56

magicthree · 11/01/2023 03:53

Anyone who's life is ruined by Harry's book is a bit sad to begin with. How does this make life grim? It's great entertainment!

You must be very easily entertained. I can't see anything "entertaining" about it, it's just the usual woe is me story from a whiny entitled brat who doesn't seem to have a brain in his skull.

and yet here you are. Entertaining yourself.

Coxspurplepippin · 12/01/2023 15:05

BrokeAsABone · 11/01/2023 20:30

I saw a lot made out of Harry saying he got the smaller bedroom at Balmoral....that tool Zac Goldsmith was hammering him about it, conveniently leaving out the very next line of the book. That Harry DIDN'T CARE.

Harry was quite right that the spin is dangerous, not his words.

If he didn't care why make such a thing about it?

The passage doesn't read like someone who didn't care.

Usergjdksndjsn · 12/01/2023 15:07

Nah this has been a nice break to distract me from actual grim things in the country

Fushiadreams · 12/01/2023 15:08

I think Andrew is off the mark here, very few peoples emotional well being will be based on William and Harry getting on.

i think most people view it as gossip, or like car crash tv.many if anything feel sorry for Charles William Kate and camilla. We also feel some pity for harry and , how low he’s sunk and the fact he’s publicly attacking people who without doubt love him. Also feel sorry for his kids, who are growing up with pretty much no wider family other than doria, a woman who seems to do as she’s told and who abandoned her own 9 year old child and did not come back into her life till she was an adult.

i certainly don’t agree they should comment or we think it’s all true. We already know it’s not , shit even harry admits it’s not factually true often.

so no I am not with him at all

JaneJeffer · 12/01/2023 15:10

simplefree · 10/01/2023 18:48

it is great entertainment for me

Exactly. I'm not in the UK though Grin

Spectre8 · 12/01/2023 15:57

welcome2023 · 12/01/2023 14:08

I've really enjoyed the drama
Who doesn't have a dysfunctional uncle, envious brothers. Bitchy sister in laws etx
Hugely amusing

Just think he's so likeable I don't know why
Just doesn't rake himself seriously does he
Quite refreshing

I agree. Finally we really see what goes on behind the image they try to project.

Also highly amusing watching people go absolutely crazy and deranged about it all 😆

Sleepysophie · 12/01/2023 16:05

goldfootball · 10/01/2023 18:57

maybe we can campaign for Harry to get an OBE for services for entertainment.

anyone who is invested is loving the drama or else they would be ignoring it!

also wtf about getting encouragement and support from the royal family 😂

OBE For Services to Entertainment 😂Love it.

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