English Rose : What Harry has married, not who he has married.

[notanotheroneagain]

Will just leave this here, for those who claim not to tweeter.
I think it encompasses Mumsnetters, tbh. A caller to LBC

"l'm embarrassed about what he has married"

twitter.com/LBC/status/1612007824061599745

I am amazed that anyone would assume skin colour from an English Rose comment. An English rose can be ANY colour, she just needs to come from England. Fortunately we have many races that have lived on our beautiful isle since at least 1593.

The meaning of English rose:

English rose is a description, associated with English culture, that may be applied to a naturally beautiful woman or girl who is from or is associated with England.

It does say she has to be white!!

To assume she does, is to be racist yourself I think.

**It does NOT say she has to be white

English roses have to be English women (of any ethnicity). It’s comparing English women to the national flower, cause women are flowers.

Prince Phillip was Prince of Denmark and Greece, but he was also a descendent of Queen Victoria. Royals are all multi-National.

Al of us are multi national. You would be hard pressed to find a person that does not have a variety of DNA running through their bodies and ancestry.

I would never assume an English rose was white.

Not pleasant and maybe uncomfortable for some but sometimes it helps to drop something like this to remind the anti M&H who insist that this has nothing to do with Ms race

A comment on “should have married an English rose” has nothing to do with race. It’s based on the fact that since George VI abolished the rule that British Princes must marry a princess, the RF has tended to marry British aristocratic women- the Queen Mother Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Princess Diana Spencer, etc. King Charles relaxed things even more after the disaster of his marriage to Diana…to allow marrying commoners. Prince William married an English commoner. Prince Harry has benefitted from his male relatives for him to be able to marry a foreign commoner who has been divorced.

Less than a century ago, his great great uncle Edward VIII had to abdicate the throne to be able to marry a divorced American woman.

We've seen similar views expressed so it's not really a stretch. Albeit, no mention of the English Rose but people are downright obsessed and have no critical thinking- just blind anger.

Also, nobody is saying that everyone is like this woman, but there are plenty. The most vocal critics are very similar to that caller.

True, but royals are more multi-National than the average commoner in the U.K.

Also- I am from a mixed background. I have never met a non-white person who'd identify themselves as English never mind English Rose... and let's be honest, when we think of English Rose we have a certain picture in our mind. That's not to say the caller is racist by any stretch, but 99% of people aren't picturing a black or Asian woman when they hear that.

I don't think anyone uses the term anymore to be fair!
There is no reason to assume colour when we think of an English Rose, an English woman or anything associated with being English.

Possibly the caller was trying to make the point that anyone English regardless of race would have been better suited to the life Harry had to offer, as Meghan herself points out she had 'no idea' of what was expected of her, what their life would be like. Most English people do know that you curtsey to the Queen for instance, etc etc.

I don't know what she meant, but I can't imagine anyone sane going on LBC and being racist - it would be an idiotic and stupid thing to do! It is an offence. So no I think she meant a person from England would have understood the trials and tribulations of the life in the royal household better than someone from another country.

I have never met a non-white person who'd identify themselves as English
I have, many times. There is a generational shift though with younger generations preferring to identify as British because “English” excludes Welsh, Scottish and northern Irish. .

This has never been my personal experience many times. The only time anyone identifies as English is in a football context😂 British, sometimes, never English. It's always by country.

Aye, right

What a disgusting caller. The interviewer should have questioned her more on it. But she reveals exactly the attitudes that H&M have been dealing with, And we see that on here too.

WTF is an english rose anyway? Blonde/fair-skinned like Diana? Brunnette/olive-skinned like Kate? Both get called that so it's totally meaningless. Of course it just a flattering word for white, isn't it.

Why does it have to be a white person? Is that not your own bias speaking there? Why can't a black woman be a beautiful English rose? I honestly find that quite offensive that you can't even imagine one being anything other than white.
It didn't cross my mind that the caller was referring to skin colour, I assumed she meant nationality.

An ‘English rose’ is any English woman with natural outer and inner beauty.

Nothing to do with hair colour, eye colour, skin tone or ethnicity.
Roses come in all colours anyway so really no basis to assume “rose” only means “white rose”.

In my OP I did underline what, instead of who. Meaning that so many de-humanise MM.

The people who point out race are correct ofcourse.
In general, no one thinks of stunning, highly accomplished women like Naomi Campbell/ Gemma Chan/ Archie Panjabi/ Zadie Smith as an 'English Rose', immediately. Even though all these women are English and highly accomplished on top of their looks (Oxford/Cambridge/Grammar school alumni - all we tend to look up to).

As vile and unhinged as the caller was, she was a lot more measured and polite than many MANY posters here.

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say a black woman can't be an english rose. It's true - why can't she be?

I'm asking what do the people who use the term actually mean - people like that caller. Of course they mean white. She was a compete racist.

Racist calls into LBC shocker 🙄

So an “English rose” doesn’t mean “white woman” but you think anyone who uses the term actually means “white woman” and is a racist? That’s a bit of a stretch.

Regardless of how you feel about any of the RF (and, cards on the table: I'm a republican, I wish we could just get rid of the whole institution ASAP):

Not only is this deeply offensive, it also reeks of pure misogyny.

It's shocking (but also not) how wide-spread this is, still.

Literally at the office, today (about the H&M situation):

Male colleague: "this whole affair is just proof that a single woman can ruin EVERYTHING, because ..."

Me: "If I may stop you there: careful what you say now - here in the presence of the one and only woman on this leadership team ... I should advise you to keep your opinions to the concrete case without generalising. I'm not kind, nor am I merciful, towards open sexism!"

I made him shut up - but the mere fact that he was about to say it out loud shows, what the problem with some men is!

"English rose" is often a racist dog whistle. And furthermore, what about the other three countries of the UK?

She said "He should have married an English Rose like Kate".