Parliament discuss counsellors of state (Harry & Andrew)

[TheTantrumoftheToddlerIsThere]

Parliament are discussing whether Harry and Andrew should remain as ‘Counsellors of State’ (who can act as stand ins for the King) when they are no longer working royals.

Viscount Stangate brought up the issue in the House of Lords, questioning whether an amendment was needed due to Andrew having left ‘public life’ and Harry having ‘left the country’.

Source: www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/10/25/duke-sussex-duke-yorks-role-counsellors-state-questioned-parliament/

[Title edited at OP's request]

Of course they should be removed and I can’t believe it hasn’t already happened . Anne and Edward would be much more appropriate.

And Co while they are at it , they should remove the York and Sussex titles .

Wouldn't it be Eugenie and Beatrice not Anne and Edward?

If they stripped Harry & Andrew for not being working royals, they’d have to skip Beatrice & Eugenie for that reason too (wouldn’t they?)

Yes , Anne and Edward are the next working Royals .

Even better

It’s usually done by line of succession and I guess this is the first time the top ones in that list haven’t been working royals.

Absolutely this!

The system is a bit obsolete in this respect (and others too). Of course in the olden times these counsellors of state were really meant to be counsellors to the (ruling) family. Maybe bigger changes should be warranted?

In theory, Harry could be suspended from the role because he's not UK resident. But I guess they don't want to remove him and leave Andrew in post.

Charles was reported to have been seeking an amendment to the Regency Act that would mean it was consort (optional) plus the next 4 adults in the succession who were also working royals.

I suppose they could define 'working' by amount received from Sovereign Grant, or they'd need to create some other definition. It does make sense that only those active in 'The Firm' get the executive roles

So, currently, leaving aside Queen Camilla, it's:
William, Harry, Andrew, Beatrice

If existing provision to suspend those not resident in UK were used:
William, Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenie

Parliamentary action required to remove Andrew as well:
William Beatrice, Eugenie, Edward

King Charles' proposal for working royals only:
William, Edward, Anne, Duke of Gloucester

Thanks for the analysis. Not easy but they need to do something about it. There are low probability high risk scenarios to be dealt with

Maybe I’m being ultra modern here, but I feel like Catherine, as future Queen consort and Queen mother, could be given a role as a counsellor, with it being the 21st century and all. I know it’s very unlikely and you will all disagree with me but I’m just putting out there…🤣🫣🤣

If Camilla (royal by marriage) can be one, why not Catherine, she might not want to of course.

PoWess is unlikely ever to be Queen Mother (unless of course George marries someone called Catherine)

It's only current consort who gets the role, as counsellor of state, and even them its optional. Remember this isn't an honorary or advisory role. It gives the holders the right to perform monarchical functions when the monarch is overseas (less needed now owing to modern communications) or temporarily indisposed.

There are low probability high risk scenarios to be dealt with

You mean accident or illness leading to imminent demise of PoW, and then King Charles dying before 2031? (if I've added up right, that would be before age 83)

I think both Houses have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

My use of ‘Queen Mother’ comes from the courtesy title bestowed upon the mother to a reigning monarch and (usually) a Queen Dowager, which barring any terrible tragedies, will be Catherine. It is used to distinguish the old Queen from any other Queens.

Please forgive the Wikipedia link but this is what I understood the title to mean:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_mother

What happens when Anne and the Duke of Gloucester retire? Anne is 72 and the DOG is 78.

I can’t see Anne retiring any time soon ( unless through illness) so the Wales children would be near working age.

That is correct but not complete.

The styles of Dowager Queen or Queen Mother (interchangeable) are only used when there is need to distinguish between two Queens with the first name. It is never given to someone who was not crowned Queen (Margaret Beaufort was known as 'My Lady the King's Mother', but that's not the same)

So, for example, although Queen Mary was indeed the dowager, she never used that style, because the next Queen was Elizabeth. When we had three Queens, they were Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, and Queen Elizabeth.

So it'll only happen for current PoWess if George marries a Catherine

(Similarly, current Queen will remain Queen Camilla even after King Charles' death, unless something frightful happens to Catherine and Willian remarries to a Camilla0

That's the snag in the 'slimmed down' version.

Options, reduce the required number - so you could for example have optional consort, at least 2, and up to four.

Or you plan who does duties (taking over what's currently done by Gloucesters and Kents?) bringing in the York Princesses - once their DC are a bit older - or even the Wessex offspring (though they've been brought up in expectation of no role)

@EdithWeston Ah, I see. So when William ascends the throne she will be addressed as Queen or Queen Consort . But when George ascends she will be Queen Catherine the Dowager Queen or just Queen Catherine (unless as you state, George marries another Catherine).

Thank you for taking the time to explain 🙂

On a side note... what if George marries another man? Will that be a Prince Consort? Just Prince? I'm guessing not another King...

It would be interesting to see what happens if they kept the current requirements the same for when George becomes King. Wouldn’t that make the next generation of counsellors Charlotte, Louis, Harry & Archie. Makes it more interesting if you add Lilibet into the mixture considering she was born and raised in the U.S (although I guess she is of dual citizenship?)

And what would happen if Harry, Meghan, Archie & Lili decide to come back to reside in the U.K (if Harry’s being removed is just being based purely on residency).

It’s all such a mess.

@PuttingDownRoots Oooh good question. I’m guessing they would have to be Prince Consort or an honorary Royal Duke (like Philip). Queens are deemed lower in station than Kings and I don’t think they’d let the consort be of equal rank. But Prince Albert and Prince Philip were Princes in their own right (although Philip was a deposed prince). I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will have a more definitive answer 🙂

Would George be allowed to marry another man, without some kind of constitutional change? I thought he'd probably have to be in line to be head of the C of E, and thus have a C of E wedding, unless he renounced it all at that point. But maybe not, maybe there's nothing that say the monarch or future monarch actually has to be C of E. Maybe they're all secretly atheist anyway. Or maybe by that time, C of E will be very inclusive.