Parliament discuss counsellors of state (Harry & Andrew)

[TheTantrumoftheToddlerIsThere]

Parliament are discussing whether Harry and Andrew should remain as ‘Counsellors of State’ (who can act as stand ins for the King) when they are no longer working royals.

Viscount Stangate brought up the issue in the House of Lords, questioning whether an amendment was needed due to Andrew having left ‘public life’ and Harry having ‘left the country’.

Source: www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/10/25/duke-sussex-duke-yorks-role-counsellors-state-questioned-parliament/

[Title edited at OP's request]

Are their any openly gay, married members of the peerage? How are their husbands addressed?

As if the country doesn't have bigger fish to fry

are Eugenie and Beatrice working royals? if so doing what?

No. They do sweet FA for this country.

I cannot abide the York family. All their support for their nonce of a father is so misplaced and inappropriate, and don’t even get me started on ‘the duchess’.

If Andrew has no role, then how can his daughters who back him have roles?

I think Charles is aware of the optics of this. I agree with pp that he should drop the number from 5 to ‘between 3 and 5’, including consort. And put in Anne and Edward asap.

A discussion is a long, long way away from really doing something about it.

Indeed however it is pleasing that it looks like KC is putting his love for H aside and thinking about what is best for the country .
Of course , it would be much easier if A and H simply renounced the roles.

I can understand not having A as he stepped down due to disgrace, H on the other hand just married and stepped down. don't personally see a problem with him being one of these names. I mean the likely hood of him being needed is so low.

My understanding is that COS have to be resident in the U.K. Harry isn’t .
But the main question is why would he want to carry out a role in an organisation he despises ? We know that Andrew would jump at the chance of a return to public life ( won’t happen) but Harry has made it clear his future is elsewhere and good luck to him.

They’re not going to shunt Andrew and Harry out, they’ll just widen the number of CoS’s and where they can come from.

They can’t limit it to working royals only because it’ll leave William, and possible George depending on the age he accedes, too short.

Charles, Anne, the Dukes of Gloucester & Kent and Princess Alexandra are all in their 70’s and 80’s. Only William, Catherine and Edward are under 60, working royals and eligible to be CoS at some point.

I think what they’ll do is widen the pool - make it two from 7. First four in line, the spouse, and two other working royals. That means as they Cambridge children age Andrew and Harry will be naturally edged out.

They won’t deviate too much from line of succession in many areas because if they do then it gets risky for them the next time they are unpopular (look at how unpopular Charles was when Diana died for example). They don’t want the public to know that there are processes to remove titles and the likes.

Nice analysis, especially the last bit. Whatever solution, needs to keep the general public relatively un knowledgeable of how everything works. Imagine if the whole country started opining! Which at some point will happen

Imagine if every family could officially dispense of it's creeps and black sheep in such a way! 😃

@Readinginthesun

-Harry still pays for Frogmore , which means he has some kind of dual residency? He works both in the US and the UK. He has Travelyst, Invictus as HQ here? He definitely is not cut off from here and comes over for several times for work/charities. Lots of international rich people do this.

-He has never, ever said he hates his family. Please stop pedalling this lie. He has been critical of some things, just as his father before him had been. He comes over to see his grandmother, and rest of he family and keeps in touch with others via zoom as he is away. He is obviously not happy with some processes and acceptances in place.

-when one of the Eugenie stayed and worked in the US, no one called for them to be stripped of anything, not even their HRH status - they were working for an auction house, I believe. (as a side note, Richard Kaye claimed she enjoyed taxpayer security during that period 2013-15)
That goes the same for his cousin, Lord Freddy Windsor, who has lived in the US for ages.

-Beatrice half lives in Portugal with her husband, no one has asked her to be stripped of anything or even removed from the list. Nor is she a working royal either.

-if people see it's just easy as that to remove titles, then surely the public will request that everyone gets their titles removed.

*when one of the York sisters, Eugenie

It's almost, almost, like the hereditary line of succession business is non sensical.

How do you know he visits family ( by the way his grandmother died in September and he had refused to visit her at Balmoral ). How do you know he keeps in touch via zoom ?
I said he despises the organisation not his family .
I am not pedalling any lies !

Isn’t it strange that it’s ok to drag up KC’s comments from 30 years ago but any reference to H and M’s past ( racism , married 3 days before “ spectacle “ etc) is shot down .

It does suddenly look a bit more fragile, if CIII dropped dead tomorrow there’s quite a time until George is old enough to step up and W will need some additional support. I wonder if H would move back to support? If not then something to exclude A would be needed. Doesn’t feel like a good time to slim down really.

notanotheroneagain good post.
people say H is now in the same place as his cousins, yet he doesn't seem to be allowed to live abroad, or make money. yet Zara/B&E can and that seems ok , even though they trade on being royal. but when H&M do it is bad.

Edward & Sophie and Ann are already providing that support (plus all the staff) . I think H would be at the bottom of W's list.

There is that, but how else can they protect there huge inheritance? Don’t think there’s much support for revolution, even now.

Lord Frederick Windsor has never been either HRH or a working royal.

There has been (intermittent) condemnation of the cost to the public purse of the York princesses. It died down when taxpayers no longer funded them. The called for them to be stripped of their official security were so overwhelming that they were heeded (and anything they now have is privately provided)

I don't think most people have realised that Princess Beatrice is now a CoS. But as she is not a working royal, it is possible that she could be removed from the role - depending on what kind of reform they go for (see my post above where I outline what I think are the four options, written before 'just bung another couple on there' emerged as a potential front-runner)

The example of the Wessexes - no HRH for the DC (though they do have aristocratic styles) and expectation that they will work for a living - seems to be the most popular template for monarch's nieces and nephews

Lord Frederick Windsor has never been either HRH or a working royal

I have often wondered whether he is a prop that gets wheeled out on Halloween.

*The King will extend the number of royals who can act as counsellors of state rather than replace the Duke of Sussex and the Duke of York, the Telegraph understands.

In a move that will help to keep the family peace, the Regency Act is expected to be amended to allow the Earl of Wessex and the Princess Royal to take on the roles.

By opting to create additional counsellors rather than relieve Prince Harry and Prince Andrew of their duties, the King will deftly solve a problem that had threatened to dog the early part of his reign while also preventing further family discord.

The move will effectively sideline the two Dukes, one of whom opted to leave the official working Royal family with the other effectively being sacked, without causing undue humiliation.*

This from the Telegraph

It goes in to say that this was discussed when the Queen was still alive

The thing is, they won’t ever chuck Harry out of the line of succession because, firstly, once you start picking and choosing who gets to be in it it’s no longer a hereditary monarchy, and secondly if a heinous tragedy befell the Wales’ then Charles would still much prefer his son and grandchildren as next in line than Andrew’s family.

Counsellors of State don’t have to be working royals because of the role they fulfil and because of the fact that they never do it solo. The Earl of Harewood was never a working royal, yet was CoS for his uncle and his cousin. And Princess Arthur of Connaught was well down the succession line, yet because the other royals were so young she did it.

The slimming down has gone much further than Charles planned imo. His slimming was his siblings children. It was being clear that, for him, the York Princesses and Wessex pair were never going to be like Princess Alexandra or the Dukes of Gloucester or Kent.

Losing his brother, one of his sons and his daughter-in-law as working royals (who would have covered a minimum of 900 annual engagements between them) was never part of the plan and has left KC and W with a tricky balance to find until William’s children are older (and has quite possibly changed the plans for Charlotte and Louis’ future roles).