'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

Exactly - now if they’d said Anne - I’d maybe have believed it 😂

Happy to be contradicted if I’m wrong, but Charles does appear to inspire loyalty amongst his courtiers. From what I’ve read anyway. And lots of first hand accounts describe him as being very pleasant and warm. I thought it was lovely he walked Meghan down the aisle and took such personal care selecting music for the wedding and the songs for the choir. He’s a fascinating multi faceted character with plenty of quirks - looking forward to the books insights reg him especially

I think that Spector article sums up the H&M situation quite well.

I just can't work out what the future holds for them as a couple. If they aren't getting the big deals. Do they sit back and live of what they already have accumulated?

Very unfair to accuse KC of assaulting staff with no evidence that just nasty. And way beyond having his posh boy 'stinking pen' rant.

I actually read some of the book and it's extremely shocking. Meghan is painted as a bully for occasionally sending an early morning email and making one slightly snarky comment

The book isn’t out yet, so you’ve read ‘some’ of the extracts in the Times. If you’d read them all the way through, you’d know that an early morning email and a slightly snarky comment is nowhere near the extent of what is alleged.

I agree that Charles’ behaviour as reported in the book is also troubling.

@Dinoteeth

They have huge outgoings - security, PR, polo ponies, private jets. They must be spending close to 8m a year. They’re not generating that type of income. They are spending like a+ listers.

Do we think the book will have much more than the Times excepts or its it those are the worse things the book will report?

I’d be very interested in what the ‘Courtiers’ have to say about Andrew.

Um, from the book being discussed?? Like I said? The information in my post (apart from the part about the video) is all taken directly from the book "Courtiers" by Valentine Low.

Here are direct quotes from the book:

"Charles is a demanding boss. Working for him is not a nine-to-five job."

"He also had a proper temper on him. He would go from zero to 60 in a flash."

"Dickie Arbiter, his press secretary, was once walking out of the palace with the private secretary a short distance behind Charles when the prince, infuriated by something the private secretary had said, turned round and directed an ill-tempered outburst at the hapless courtier."

"In the space of about seven years, Charles had five different private secretaries. Promotion, preferment, who’s in, who’s out: no wonder Charles’s household has been compared to Wolf Hall."

Charles has always had a reputation for having a terrible temper and for treating his staff like crap. What have you been reading that says otherwise?

I think the time wasted was in closing this down.

I agree with all of this and especially the sentence above. They should have anticipated obfuscation, derailment and drama from H&M and shut it down with an abrupt ‘the plane is leaving at x time with the just PH on it - be there or don’t’

I can only imagine the stress any delay caused to the rest of the family at that time. PH is v v lucky that the delay didn’t actually impact the ability to arrive before she passed away.

Advance copies do exist...

Video of the TV series discussing the sink and butler choking incident.

twitter.com/factsand2cents/status/1575170739497734145

I said the same earlier in the thread. I suspect the book may not go too closely there for legal reasons.

Yes this will be really interesting. Looking forward to that. That must be a whole series of books on its own - or are they are knotted up with super injunctions.

Meghan is painted as a bully for occasionally sending an early morning email and making one slightly snarky comment,

Thats not an accurate review of the 3 book excerpts published in The Times - did you read them?

Because from the Times excerpts linked we are told consistently of horrendous abusive bullying by H&M to their staff - constantly screaming, harassing, demanding, belittling and berating at least 6 staff to tears, ‘shaking’ and ‘feeling destroyed’.

Others - v Sr experienced seasoned professionals are characterised as being under huge stress. Many other employees left, the palace had to split their households to cope and complaints were made about H&Ms despicable behaviour right to the top and an investigation launched.

Their behaviour is appalling to other human beings and would not be tolerated in any other institution or corporate environment.

I do believe the courtiers handled it badly - by tolerating, accommodating and covering up for so long and I suspect that the report found that there was indeed shocking bullying by H&M but that equally those who should have been accountable and responsible for protecting the victims of H&Ms harassment did not do so.

So you read in the advance copy about Meghan sending an occasional early morning email?

Because fact is, none of the excerpts mention Meghan sending any emails at all.

So as you are clearly mistaking at what the book bases Meghan's 'bullying' on, you should read the excerpts.

Because fact is, none of the excerpts mention Meghan sending any emails at all.

Good spot.

Lets get back to discussing the excerpts.

Interesting, you read the excerpt about Charles but clearly haven't read the ones about Meghan and Harry - or have, but for some reason are ignoring or lying about what they actually state.

You haven't reported everything accurately from the Charles excerpt either.
You said/implied that he "physically assaults his staff, that he regularly throws things at his aides". This is another untruth. The extract does NOT state these things. It says that he throws things, but doesn't state or imply they are thrown at people. At no point does it mention that he physically assaults his staff.

I wouldn't want to work for anyone who during work exhibited a 'fierce temper'. The book extract is clear Charles has such a thing. But it absolutely does not say that he was or is physically abusive to staff.

Why would I read excerpts when I have the whole book?

I haven't read any excerpts.

Maybe you should wait until you've read the actual book.

(Though as it happens, I checked and the extracts DO say that Charles regularly throws things, which is physical abuse IMO. Meghan has been trashed here over and over again over a fake story invented by someone on Twitter which was picked up by an Australian tabloid, a story not even the British tabloids will touch, about Meghan throwing a cup of tea. If it's abusive for Meghan to throw things then it's abusive for Charles to throw things.)

The video I linked which everyone is pretending doesn't exist is the source for the incident where Charles butler accused Charles of physically attacking and choking him.

Oh and this is a FIRST HAND ACCOUNT from Charles' former butler himself, directly. Not a second or third hand source like Low claiming to have heard something. Charles actual former butler gave a personal interview where he personally and directly accused Charles of physical assault.

www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/prince-charles-once-allegedly-choked-a-staff-member-and-ripped-a-sink-out-of-the-wall-in-anger.html/

www.thedailybeast.com/the-secrets-of-the-royal-servants

www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/jan/17/once-more-into-breach-of-royal-confidentiality/

"In 1995, Charles’ personal valet, Ken Stronach, came clean about what it was really like to work for the prince — and it didn’t paint a great picture. Stronach revealed in an interview with News of the World that Charles was angry; he claimed the prince had outbursts that once required him to hide in a closet in fear. He revealed that Charles and Diana would get into a “screaming match” often. Stronach even told a story of the time Charles dropped a cuff link down the sink, and, in anger, he ripped the sink right out of the wall just to find it. The former staffer also once recalled that Charles followed up on his anger by grabbing Stronach by the throat. Stronach claimed he then hid in a linen closet until Charles had calmed down. Stronach’s actions were seen as a massive betrayal, as nobody so close to a royal had ever provided such confidential details about one’s personal life. “All through my time with (Charles) we’ve all been told not to speak to anyone about anything,” Stronach said. “… We’ve all kept his secrets, and the strain made me very ill.”"

(To clarify, American publications refer to Stronach as Charles' butler, British publications refer to him as Charles' valet. Valet is presumably correct.)

Recently heard this book being discussed and apparently it is only a small section about Harry and Meghan. (I have not read it myself).
Apparently it includes a history of courtiers (various staff), as well as the late Queen

(Charles) ripped the sink right out of the wall just to find it.

I find that very impressive, actually. I once dropped a contact lens down the drain and had to undo the u bend. I wouldn't have have had the strength to pull the sink away. There must be a lot of muscles going on under those well-cut suits. And he did it himself rather than instructing someone else. So, strong and self-reliant and thoughtful.

Why would I read excerpts when I have the whole book?

Maybe you should wait until you've read the actual book.

You're lucky enough to have a copy of the book, others don't as yet so you can hardly expect a detailed discussion on the points you've raised until they do. This is a discussion of the material available now for the majority. I suppose that may be somewhat frustrating for you but you could always wait until everyone else has read the actual book? Seems a more practical solution rather than expecting others to hold off on discussing whatever they want to because of one outlier.

TheWheeledAvenger, Stronach denied he said many of the 'revelations' in the News of the World article apnews.com/article/aa8180b0ff552fe0a5bd61afb2b16d0b
It also seems that Piers Morgan and Clive Goodman were involved gawdhelpus.

I see the Meghan police have returned.

They have a very, very large blank in their vision when it comes to reading and understanding any negative information about her.

Say for example the calling of an employee ever ten minutes over the course of a few hours to scream at them. Or the lies- strangely in that way they are very similar to Meghan herself. Perhaps these people attract each other?

Oh crikey 😳, does that make me old aged?! 😱

@TheWheeledAvenger

My dear, I admire your spirited and clear-eyed insights, but trust me, you are on a hiding to nowhere! That Charles is a difficult man to work with, that he has been unpleasant to staff for years, that he physically assaulted a staffer and has engaged in behaviour worse than anything Meghan has done is all well known. I mean, the Palace has now demanded that broadcasters remove from future broadcasts his public displays of temper after the Queen died.

This is an institution that for years confined black members of staff to the kitchens, out of sight. And it is an institution that today is still exempt from race discrimination laws.

All this is known, but no one cares about it on these threads, because the royal family is whiter than white.

Except of course for Meghan, the biracial woman who refused to accept oh so gratefully her allotted place.

And isn't it striking that all here are talking about how both Meghan and Harry were such "horrible bullies" according to this new book, but no one is questioning why the formal complaints relate only to Meghan's "bullying".

And of course, only Meghan, in the short 18 months that she was a member of the RF, received such formal complaints, not Charles, not Andrew, not anyone else, all of whom have been raised in a bubble of privilege and entitlement. But that's because they are merely passionate, demanding, hardworking, take your pick.

And isn't it curious that the press reported several times that Meghan and Harry held a farewell lunch at the Goring Hotel for their staff who were said to be devastated they were leaving, with some reported to be "in tears".

Then the narrative changed just before the OW interview: I find it laughable that so many have fallen for this clearly calculated smear campaign that curiously surfaced just before the OW interview when the "Palace" was terrified of what they would say.

Then again, people will swallow whole anything that makes Meghan look bad, from fake pregnancy bumps all the way to faking her blackness. Just this week, over on Twitter, Camilla's biographer Angela Levin is retweeting the lie that she did not invite some pictured Ragland relatives fromGeorgia to the wedding because she is ashamed they are black: never mind that the said Ragland relatives were uncovered just before the wedding in a genealogical programme that traced the relationship back to Doria's great, great, great, great grandfather from the days of American slavery. Neither Doria nor Meghan, nor even the relatives themselves, were aware of the relationship or had even met, but of course she is slammed for not inviting them.

Oh, and the same biographer was exposed for her lie about Meghan arranging her own walkabout for the US cameras after the Queen died, a lie which was lapped up here by posters without question.

Anything is welcome here that makes Meghan look bad! It's the Two Minute Hate that has lasted 5 years. And will go on and on and on, until George's kingdom comes!!😄