Henry VIII - waste of space?

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

"Apart from his immaturity over religion and which way he really swung, and the total waste of lives, time and money fighting France which achieved sod all - just for starters - anyone got a good word to say for the guy?"

These are not my words neither is the subject heading, I saw it on Facebook. But was he a waste of space? I do have one good word to say for him though I'm not going to start discussing religion.

Her ADHD has nothing to do with it, how strange!!!

But Tudor history is a very large part of Scottish history, our current monarchy in the UK is descended from Henry VII, and that is because his daughter married the Scottish monarch, ultimately the continuation of the line has come from the Scots so Im surprised this hasnt been taught

Her ADHD has nothing to do with it, how strange!!!

How do you know?

I find it really interesting how bits of history can loom so large in one country, and be almost unknown in another. It's not just England and Scotland - I have a friend from the US who was absolutely stunned that we barely knew anything about the American war of independence. I said I assumed it didn't get taught much because we're sore losers, but they were still gobsmacked that it wasn't well known.

Speaking of Tudor history, Charles III is using the Tudor Crown in his new cypher, rather than St. Edward's crown used by Elizabeth II.

I will rephrase, it was more this

So unless you are English, read history books, watch historical documentaries or dramas, and are neurotypical

Which makes it sound as if anyone ND is not likely to know about history or more specifically Tudor history.

But yes in terms of the pockets of knowledge from school, its actually quite sparse. I love history and have mainly taught myself over the years.

Its not 'a' Tudor Crown though is it, I thought Cromwell melted everything English in the 1600s, the Scottish crown jewels are the oldest ones.

St.Edward's Crown was melted down, too. The existing crowns are replicas, with the Tudor Crown being a more recent replica.

I would have liked for him to wear the Scottish crowns. More ancient

When I say existing crowns, I mean crowns of England. The crown of Scotland is original, made for James V.

How many great great grandfathers is he is to Charles?

The King is using the crown of Scotland in his cypher for Scotland.

Please accept my apologies @CrabbitBastard

How many great great grandfathers is he is to Charles?

Thirteen, if I have this right:

James V of Scotland
Mary Queen of Scots
James VI and I
Elizabeth Stuart later Queen of Bohemia
Sophia, Electress of Hanover
George I
George II
Frederick Prince of Wales
George III
Edward Duke of York
Victoria
Edward VII
George V
George VI
Elizabeth II
Charles III

A lot of those names are on the outside of Linlithgow Palace as the descendants of Mary Q of Scots and we were trying to work out the links as each one moved down.

@SenecaFallsRedux Thanks for that interesting post - my knowledge lapsed just before the Georges and picked up at Victoria !

Correction to my post above: Queen Victoria's father was Duke of Kent not York.

There's a youtube out there tracing the descendants of Charlemagne, to determine who would be his direct heir today. Turns out to be Charles.

www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford

He's got some competition though!

I will join the lengthy queue for a call from the Palace

CPL593H · Today 08:20
BadgerB · Today 05:53
There's a youtube out there tracing the descendants of Charlemagne, to determine who would be his direct heir today. Turns out to be Charles.
www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford
He's got some competition though!
I will join the lengthy queue for a call from the Palace Grin

Yes, I am aware that everyone with European ancestors is descended from medieval kings, etc, etc, as well as peasants and serfs. This particular chart set out to show who would now be on Charlemagne's throne, if it still existed. To put it another way, you and I may be descended from Charlemagne two or three times, Charles, probably dozens, if not scores

Yes, that makes sense, posh marries posh, reinforces the lines. Not always a good thing of course, thinking of the Habsburg jaw at an extreme.

Ive never found any sniff of aristocracy or royalty in my lines, Im back to the 1700s in most lines but not one ounce of anything have I found, they're all bog standard ag labs or labourers or weavers, shoe makers, some sailors, some hawkers, a coach maker, a stone mason, a copper plate maker.

Id love to find a link

Mine varied "ag lab" with "miner" and ALL of them are Midlands. Hawker would be absolutely exotic. Oh, I've got a stone mason though and from Yorkshire, I'm so pleased with him!

You just need to find the *"gateway ancestor" as I believe it's called to get the line back in to the grand. I hold to the thought that we're all descended from them though, its virtually impossible to have much English ancestry and not have a direct line back to Edward III, isn't it?

*mine are shy.

They're mostly London, particularly on my mums side with a big dose of Irish (which I will never find the records for back in Ireland because all the records were destroyed I think), one German, a Norwich link

On my dads side I have a Hastings link, one Scottish link and the majority London

But all utterly utterly poor, without proper records, mispelt names as well. So depressing

I understand! My late husband was from an old East End family and his tree was lit up like a pinball parlour, Huguenot silk weaver refugees, Jewish revolutionaries from eastern Europe, a highwayman, musical hall entertainers (some very well known) I don't mind mine being poor, but they could have been a bit more...interesting?

An American friend who was about as Deep South States as it gets started her family history. Very quickly got the "gateway" and was revelling in Plantagenets, French Royals, you name it. All "Duc de this" and "Marquis de that".

Perhaps ours were poor (and dull) but honest @bellac11 they had to have something going for them!

(I know this isn't the point of genealogy before anyone says and our ancestors are not to blame, but the ag labs do get a bit wearing )

Sorry to be off topic but I suspect our weavers were Huguenots, they were silk weavers but have drawn a blank at around 1770ish.

How did he find out or did he already know?

(Apols too for being off topic)

The silk weaver is a big clue and look at where they lived, Spitalfields was a big centre but East End generally. The surnames can be a giveaway, French sounding (although some Anglicised) and in the early days they had their own churches. DH's silk weaver ancestors surname was listed on the Huguenot records, not sure where (he did research pre internet)

Don't know if you've come across these sites

www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/family-history.html

www.huguenotsofspitalfields.org/huguenot-names/

I'm hopeful for you with this!