Do you think William and Kates tour was 'tone deaf'?

[oovetolove]

I'm interested to hear from people about this.

FWIW I think it's been an odd tour - almost an unnecessary flaunt of wealth and power.

I don't understand the point of the tour tbh and whilst I don't know if I'd consider it tone deaf as the papers suggest, it's definitely pointless and a reminder for me why the monarchy are becoming so outdated and more irrelevant, though I'm interested to hear others opinions on this.

I'm pretty sure Australia, Canada and many others in the Commonwealth will choose to leave once the Queen dies.

Leave the commonwealth? Or remove the queen/king as head of state? There are more than double the number of republics in the commonwealth than there are countries with the queen as HoS.

Id assumed they were invited rather than imposed themseleves but maybe not. and also assumed that countries can leave the commonwealth if they arent interested.
Im not a big monorchy fan so the whole concept is tone deaf to me, but i feel its easier for somewhere like Jamaica to ditch the royal family than England so they obviously havent chosen to yet.

@upinaballoon

I didn't feel that I was fawning or scraping, just looking.

But just by being there you were fawning in a way - how would anyone know you were not there to gawp in awe and wonder at the beautiful princess? Out of interest what made you decide to go, as in why was it important for you to see her in the flesh rather than just watching a news video of her or whatever?

[quote Ohmnomnom]Just leave this here...

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That is excellent!

I just commented on the other thread

I'm from a Commonwealth country and I think what has been happening over the last number of years has had an impact on the events you see on this tour.

1. traction from Black Lives Matter about Britain's colonial past and reparations to former colonies
2. a rise in African nations against the notions of "White Saviours"
3. the treatment of Meghan Markle as the first person of colour admitted to the senior ranks of the RF (media treatment, public comment and whatever actual RF situation)
4. the lack of diversity in RF circles, both those in RF and those working in the RF machinery - from the outside looking in - they seem to be all white, middle aged men (stiff courtiers) or young, posh, white, private schooled privileged set.

I think the whole idea of a 'royal tour' is outdated, cringe-worthy and patronising. After this disastrous tour though I suspect there will be a major rethink. The optics were horrible, the hosts didn't want them there and made that clear and William and Kate must've been quite uncomfortable at times. I suspect they'll have returned home and told the other members of the RF that they never want to either be subjected to, or subject their hosts to another royal tour like that.

The idea of the Commonwealth and the Queen being head of state of other, independent nations is completely outdated. It smacks of colonialism and all the negative connotations around that and no one wants that association any more.

Yupp

The idea of the Commonwealth and the Queen being head of state of other, independent nations is completely outdated

It is up to the nations to request change (and then the planning for the transition starts immediately)

If they have not done so, it is for reasons of their own self-determination.

It’s tricky because a lot of the things that look so 😮 to us, were stage managed by the local authorities and, as intended, broadly well received by many.

But a lot of it accidentally looked dreadful - the wooden thrones, the wire fence. W & K did nothing WRONG as such, but their own PR people should have thought it 3 steps ahead & pushed for a much more egalitarian vibe - but then that might have been perceived as too casual and disrespectful by older people in Jamaica? Maybe they just couldn’t win.

I agree that Harry has a better knack for not seeming like a dick in these situations and is just better with people in general - he’d have been photographed sitting on the ground with a bunch of teens - BUT he also has more of a carte blanche because he is not their future head of state & doesn’t HAVE to display gravitas.

But then William isn’t going to be their head of state any more either so maybe he should have just ditched the suits & played football after all! 😆

They should have turned up in jeans with £50m to fund a new department of cybersecurity or internal medicine or something that Jamaica WANTS at Kingston university or something, and taken photos with teachers & builders.

Tours are proposed, designed and organised by the countries that host them. I think they also pay for them. The royals don’t just turn up and do what they want, although I would guess that they agree the proposed schedule plenty in advance. So anything that’s being described as tone deaf has been set up by the host nations. I actually think W&K are pretty game and do a decent job of joining in with whatever random shit they are asked to do.

No country is forced to have the British Monarch as head of state (apart from the UK) and no country is forced to be in the Commonwealth.

Either we have no royal family (my preference) and all this stops, or we have it and accept that these anachronisms are all part of it. Getting rid of royalty wouldn’t necessarily negate the Commonwealth though. Countries can group together in whatever way they choose whether there’s a king/queen or president.

The interesting thing here (I think) is that the press Went There. In a way they never normally do.
Let's face it, a lot of what Will and Kate do is cringey and utterly pointless. But the press always champion them to the hilt. Look at all the 'kate prepares to be Queeeeeen!' articles on any given day in the Daily Mail. But this time, they acknowledged the problematic parts of royal tours - of which there are many.

My question is this - why? And why now? The Queen is obviously very frail; is this the first serious rumblings of a bigger discussion about what we want monarchy to do Post-Lizzie? If it is, then Kate and Will are in for a tough ride because they've never been answerable to any kind of job performance management before.

No tour is imposed, it will have been a mutual decision and mutually planned.

I cringed everytime I saw any of it, they're so fake. I'm not a Royalist and they are so out of date. The world right now is so full of people who think they are above others. I don't for a minute think the Royal family give a shit about anyone but themselves. Time to get rid.

My grandparents are from a Caribbean country and they are not and have never been royalists.

Well, hold the front door!! Your grandparents aren't royalists, so no-one else in any Caribbean country could possibly be royalist. Do you realise how stupid that makes you sound?

@SquirrelG

My grandparents are from a Caribbean country and they are not and have never been royalists.

Well, hold the front door!! Your grandparents aren't royalists, so no-one else in any Caribbean country could possibly be royalist. Do you realise how stupid that makes you sound?

My god you completely missed my point, I was just responding to the poster who said that everyone in the Caribbean was happy for the royal visit by using an anecdotal example that that was unlikely to be the case 🙄

Personally (if I can give my opinion @SquirrelG) I was pretty ambivalent about the RF before this tour, I thought maybe it would be a good idea that they were slimmed down but now I think they should be completely abolished.

I think the tour has been a disaster at home as well as abroad.

I've always felt indifferent about the monarchy but seeing the tour pictures has made me question whether we need a royal head of state, and if Jamaica can ditch the sovereign maybe we should also consider it along with a proper shake up of the House of Lords while we are at it.

I live in a Commonwealth country, and while there are always a few protesters many, many, people actually make the effort to get out and see the Royals because it is a big deal to them. Why do people living in the UK think they know it all?
Thank you for this. The answer could be because this is MN full of know-alls?

Zimbabwe wants to rejoin the Commonwealth and there are a handful more countries queueing up to join so it is still a respected organisation.

I think Kate's daytime outfits were OTT and insensitive and it sounds as though they were both uncomfortable about aspects of the trip but most of the events were planned and led by the host country - the open-car tour for example was not their idea. People are being manipulated by the adverse press coverage and social media like they were with the anti H&M bias.

@GirlsTalk250

Tour wasn’t pointless at all.

Our Queen is also the Queen and Head of State of Belize, Jamaica and Bahamas. Those countries specifically chose to keep her as monarch and Head of State after independence.

Wills & Kate were there as the Queen’s representatives, as she obviously cannot go in person.

I agree!

People are being manipulated by the adverse press coverage and social media like they were with the anti H&M bias.

I had to read that a few times before working out that H&M was Harry & Meghan. I was like "Fast fashion?? How are we being manipulated about that?"

@Enzbear

I cringed everytime I saw any of it, they're so fake. I'm not a Royalist and they are so out of date. The world right now is so full of people who think they are above others. I don't for a minute think the Royal family give a shit about anyone but themselves. Time to get rid.

Surely the world's always been "so full of people who think they are above others". Abolishing the British Royal Family won't change that. I wonder if Putin think he's above others.

The entire monarchy is outdated. When the Queen dies, it should be abolished with all the estates and palaces reverting to public ownership.

Developed 21st century societies should have democratically elected heads of state. I would favour an elected figurehead presidency, similar to the Irish or German model. William or Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor, as they would then be, might be ideal candidates for the job.

It crossed my mind after reading William's speech that even he appears to be questioning the future and their role, although he was talking about the commonwealth at the time, I couldn't help but feel the scales have fallen from their eyes collectively and now might be the time not just to slim down the monarchy but to phase it out altogether.

There is no real place for it in the 21st century - we are effectively subsiding and supporting more and more inequality and division. The future surely will not look like this.

The tour wasn’t imposed . The RF as HoS was historically imposed. People turning out to have a gawk isn’t an indication of support for monarchy , it’s just the human fascination with the cult of celebrity. Plenty of people would turn up to have a look at Kim Kardashian, doesn’t mean they want her as HoS , although her credentials are probably as good as the current role holders - very rich, famous, people interested in what she wear, owns a lot of houses.

I believe some of the countries that agreed to a visit were doing so as a platform for their own intentions. It gave them a world stage to reject the royal family and a global audience they would not have achieved otherwise. It was very very embarrassing.

Whoever was responsible for this disaster did not do their homework properly, had the Cambridges known what they were flying into surely they would have had second thoughts. It was the most painful awkward tour of any I have ever seen. It has only worked to highlight the worst things about the monarchy, and the last thing they needed after the Meghan, Harry and Andrew shit shows (plural)

I think all of their children even george will be encouraged to do something at university. Not just that 'little bit of knowledge about this and that' degree that Charles did. I can see George, charlotte and Louis being encouraged to have a career or maybe a creative or artistic identity that they've developed.