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Lady Jane grey

80 replies

Samcro · 13/08/2021 10:57

I watched fake or fortune the other day. they showed a painting of the execution of Lady Jane. I was shocked how young she looked.
tried googling about her. but not found much. what was her story?

OP posts:
Q1w2e3 · 14/08/2021 08:19

I only know about her from reading the Noel Streatfield Gemma books! Gemma played her in a play and I cried when she did the execution scene. I’ve not read it for decades but I remember so clearly the line was ‘Lord, into thy hands I commend my spirit.’ So sad.

NotableTree · 14/08/2021 08:35

@JaniieJones

I always find it so shocking to hear about beheadings in this country and only a few centuries ago. Obviously bad enough to execute people but why not 'just' hang them? the gruesome beheading or even worse hanging, drawing and quartering are all so horrific. What on earth were people thinking.

I know we still have it now in the middle East just why though?! What makes 'punishers' want to decapitate people.

A well-trained, sober headsman with a sharp blade is going to give you a far quicker death than hanging, which was either a lower-class execution for crime against property, or the prelude to being drawn and quartered, which I don’t think was ever done to female heretics. (I could be wrong about that.) . LJG was sentenced either to beheading or the usual female punishment for treason, to be burnt at the stake, so in fact ithe eventual mode of execution was being ‘merciful’ in granting her the easier death.

Though obviously one hears of botched beheadings, also - Margaret de la Pole, Thomas Cromwell (according to some commentators) etc.

Anne Boleyn warranted a specially imported French headsman who beheaded in the French style, with a sword and the victim kneeling upright with no block.

Buggerthebotox · 14/08/2021 12:58

It's also said that Anne Boley's lips were still moving after her beheading.

I read in an Alison Weir book that there's evidence to suggest that it takes a couple of seconds for a beheaded person to lose consciousness.Shock.

At the end of Weir's Anne Boleyn book (from the "Queens"" series) there's a rather graphic description of her death, from Anne's own point of view).

BasiliskStare · 17/08/2021 18:57

I think I read that Henry VIII thought that a french swordsman would be kinder than the axe - I believe Mary Queen of Scots - it took a few ( and little dog up her sleeve ) & Margaret of Salisbury - took a few more goes.

Can you imagine the courage to face that.

Fruityfriday · 18/08/2021 20:21

Margaret Poles death was horrific. She was about 70 aswell

Original poster
Samcro · 18/08/2021 20:31

Wow such interesting posts, i feel like I have learnt thinngs.

The poster who mentioned Petworth house, I have always wanted an excuse to go there, so thanks

OP posts:
Pashazade · 18/08/2021 20:41

This is a really good book around the whole thing. Includes all the sisters.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002TZ3CYU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

DottyHarmer · 23/08/2021 16:09

@Q1w2e3 - total derail but whoooooah! A fellow Gemma fan! I only discovered these in fairly recent times and read them to dd (she was about 13 but who doesn’t like being read to aloud?) and we loved them - such excellent characterisation showing people warts and all. I shed a tear at the end of the series - “Goodybe, Gemma, goodbye!”

Q1w2e3 · 23/08/2021 22:25

I really love them! Glad your daughter did too!

MsAmerica · 14/11/2021 22:29

She was 18 when executed.

I admit to a sneaky fondness for the movie "Lady Jane."

www.rottentomatoes.com/m/lady_jane

londonmummy1966 · 14/11/2021 23:04

On execution of traitors - hanging drawing and quartering was just for men. You were drawn on a hurdle behind a horse as you were not fit to walk the earth, you were hanged to show that you existed in the limbo between heaven and earth but not until you were dead as they wanted to revive you so you suffered the full torture of castration so that your seed would no longer pollute the earth, having your guts burn in front of you as it they were the seat of your "proud stomach" that led you to rebel against your king. Then your head would be cut from your body as it was the seat of your treasonous thoughts. Finally you were cut into quarters with your body parts tarred and then nailed up in various places as a warning to others. At a time (middle Ages rather than Tudors really) when they believed in bodily resurrection on the day of judgement being hacked to pieces was a terrible punishment as you wouldn't be able to rise again.

Female traitors didn't suffer this as it would be immodest - so they were burnt at the stake instead. The actual judgement on Anne Boleyn was that she was to be burned or beheaded at the King's pleasure.....

Drawing to execution often took place for women who were burnt and men who were beheaded as well as those who were hanged drawn and quartered.

Mumsnut · 15/11/2021 17:38

Women were burned at the stake for treason almost until 1800 - counterfeiting is technically treason.

londonmummy1966 · 15/11/2021 19:05

There is a terribly sad letter in the Foundling Hospital archives from a lady in Newgate asking them to take in her baby as she had been condemned to be burnt for filing (ie shaving off some silver) from the coinage.

Hoppinggreen · 15/11/2021 19:08

Yet another poor young woman who paid the price for her male relatives political ambitions

MaryStuart · 15/11/2021 19:12

@yodaforpresident

I remember watching that film when it came out and Cary Elwes being rather divine! I worked with his cousin at one stage and she looked remarkably like him.
I really fancied Cary Elwes in that film! And thought Helena B-C was excellent. The story of Lady Jane Grey is such a tragic one.
DrCoconut · 15/11/2021 21:56

I seem to remember that in Innocent Traitor Guildford Dudley is rather nasty to say the least whereas in the film with Helena Bonham Carter he is quite nice and they end up loving each other. I wonder where the truth lies there?

amazeandastonish · 24/11/2021 21:36

Margaret Pole's execution story is speculation and not proven

I am also fascinated by Margaret Beauford although I suspect she may actually have been a bit older when she had Henry VI as sometimes birth dates of that period were incorrect.

I always felt sad for Mary 1 - not being good enough for her father.

And I suspect Elizabeth 1st was sexually abused by her stepmother's second husband.

TameDucksAtChatsworth · 15/12/2021 14:01

She was young when she was executed-a teenager- but that painting Op is a much later imagining...maybe Victorian.

AuntMasha · 18/12/2021 18:54

I can’t bear to think of poor Margaret Beaufort giving birth when she was only 13 and being physically immature, so that she underwent a birth which was so horribly traumatic that she was permanently damaged and never gave birth again. She was described as ‘a little personage’ and that it was a miracle she and the child survived.

LadyPerseverance · 19/12/2021 10:06

There was a documentary on a few weeks ago where they depicted Margaret as a pregnant 13 year old. It was really shocking to see as most depictions of her are as an adult. She looked so petite and frail.

I love that she (and Elizabeth of York) tried to prevent her granddaughter, Margaret, from being married off too young in case a similar fate befell her too.

celiamary · 19/12/2021 10:23

I have seen a program about her by a historian on PBS (I think). Last year. May be from BBC originally. Will try and remember more.
It may have been her Father who did a deal with her uncle who manipulated her and organised the plot which was not properly supported.

MsGrumpytrousers · 19/12/2021 10:24

I've read that there was a lot of outrage at the time too and although marriages were arranged when children were quite young it was expected they wouldn't be consummated until the girl was 15 or 16.

Count me another Gemma fan! Some Streatfeild fans are a bit snotty about the books but I think it's amazing that S could update herself so brilliantly. And she's always so good about professional vs amateur.

I have the trivial thought about LJG that wouldn't it have been odd to have a King Guilford? OP, I find Wikipedia a great resource for historical info as you can follow up every thread - I'd love to know what other posters think of the quality though.

Supersimkin2 · 19/12/2021 11:15

Me too. Katherine Howard and Kathryn Parr are fascinating - Parr most because HVIII tried to have her killed the way he got shot of Boleyn and she swerved it. She was a properly clever theologian, too (always risky for a woman, let alone a wife of Henry), and brought Elizabeth I up.

Nanasueathome · 19/12/2021 11:17

Going back to Lady Jane Grey
Years ago I visited the National Gallery in Trafalgar Sqaure
There’s a painting there, the beheading of Lady Jane
Even now, I can still picture that painting in my mind and it still upsets me

sashh · 19/12/2021 11:41

@REP22

There's quite a good film, called Lady Jane, from 1986 with Helena Bonham-Carter and Cary Elwes which is worth a look if you are interested. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Jane_(1986_film)

I feel dreadfully sorry for her. She was an innocent pawn used in a terrible way and only about 17 when she was killed. Sadly not unique.

I'm fascinated by history, particularly of this era. But I'm profoundly grateful that I wasn't alive back then.

Good if you don't care about historical accuracy.

I know we still have it now in the middle East just why though?! What makes 'punishers' want to decapitate people.

France last used the guillotine in the 1970s