Is there really that much of a difference between "charity and philanthropy" v "public duty"?

[Funfacts99]

For the record I lean towards Republicanism but in general I am on the fence about this specific, current H & M debacle. On the one hand, I think it must be very difficult to join the RF as an outsider. On the other hand, I can see the merit in the argument that you are either totally in, or totally out.

However, as has been stated, is there really that much of a difference between so-called "public duty" and "charity and philanthropy" in reality? The Queen and Prince Charles undoubtedly put in the work visiting hospitals, village halls, and scout huts across the country. But at the same time, their land and estates make huge profits and generate a lot of income.

Therefore it could be argued that the RF's charitable work is backed by private income too. So what's the difference (apart from practical logistics related to H & M's location, but they have already said they would be willing to travel) between doing charitable work supported by income that you generate yourself by deals with Netflix etc, and doing charitable works backed by income generated from the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duchy of Cornwall's land and estates (which, if I have understood it correctly) is private, not public money?

If any good comes of this debacle it will be that workplace bullying will be taken more seriously. I don't care if Meghan and Harry, The Queen, the monarchy or whoever look bad. Let #bekind mean something not just a hash tag on Twitter.

Totally agree.
There is too much bullying happening whether it be in the workplace or online (as I know to my cost). It's horrible and affects a person in all sorts of upsetting ways.

I think the Palace need a far reaching independent enquiry on all the bullying that may or may not have taken place within BP. Not just Meghan. It does worry me somewhat if they do their own enquiry into it, that is themselves investigating themselves.

@Mummy195

What a desperate old style way of thinking the palace have that ppl are just gonna take the tabloids word for it. This is not the 80s. They should wake up. I see the earrings story was laughed into oblivion since ppl know that it was a stitch up and the jewellery belongs to the crown.

Very interesting thread here
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1366915308477423621.html

I also like how all these ppl that used to work with MM are coming out testifying that she is not a bully and always treated ppl fairly. Even Diana's biographer has already reported how he spent a year in LA putting out adverts that he would pay for dirt on her, and no one came out with that instead they all said she was good to work with.

Really interesting link @Mummy195

And this Palace hounding of MM, especially when she had a miscarriage and is pregnant is very distasteful.

They should have been more grown up here. Tit for tat makes the palace a laughing stock. the earrings story is so crass, given the Royal hobnobbing with unsavoury dictators and their shared hobbies (such as with the ruler of UAE).

If the queen is simply doing her professional duties mixing with unsavories, then MM wearing those earrings to a professional engagement was simply official jewellery loaned to her from the palace collection? I assume she does t personally own those earrings in LA?

Really, the corrupt RF must go

@derxa

If any good comes of this debacle it will be that workplace bullying will be taken more seriously. I don't care if Meghan and Harry, The Queen, the monarchy or whoever look bad. Let #bekind mean something not just a hash tag on Twitter.

so agree. if the M bulling stuff happened, the firm should have looked into it straight away. they should look after their staff. I think the whole thing will reflect badly on the RF if true.

"I say obviously because M has a degree in international affairs, interned at the UN and a US embassy - she lives & breathes diplomacy. If she had known who gifted these earrings to The Crown, she would NOT have chosen them."

This is just speculation - no "obviously" about it.

But it was good to see Harry looking happy with James Corden. Been a long time since he last smiled, never mind laughed.

As a republican who comes at the issue from the point of not being interested enough to follow the whole sorry saga, it is a huge argument for abolishing the sovereign grant completely. For a great many of us, public service is unpaid or very poorly paid.

The queen is effectively claiming to be a public servant. That would entail being open to public scrutiny and submitting expenses, not a huge sovereign grant. We are the servants here.

What exactly is she doing these days to justify her existence? Do the role or retire and let someone else step up.

As we don't live with Harry, we really don't know how much he laughs! I have seen him on many charity engagements over in the US, smiling, joking, happy as anything.
I really don't think we can say he doesn't smile or laugh.

Have you Rousette? That's odd because he hasn't done many charity engagements in the US. None in fact, apart from delivering some food for ten minutes with photographers snapping away. He wore a mask . Were you present then? In what capacity?

The more this debacle goes on, the less convinced I am that Harry and Meghan's priority is philanthropy or service in any way.

Their credibility has surely been destroyed in that regard. As they are now really just synonymous with public spats and scandal. It is a shame as Harry was doing such good with with Veterans and the military. I can't see charities wanting them as figure heads or patrons - as their very inclusion would take all focus off the goals and work of the charity and onto those two as controversial individuals. Any press will be about them and the work of the charity will be lost.

And before anyone says that is the RF fault or the Press fault - it really isn't. If they had walked away with dignity and focussed on their charitable endeavours their press would have been very, very different.

Oprah is not their friend, she is a media shark who sensed blood in the water. She only cares about the ratings, her own personal publicity and the money her production company will make.

It will end very badly for the Harry and Meghan.

Have you Rousette? That's odd because he hasn't done many charity engagements in the US. None in fact, apart from delivering some food for ten minutes with photographers snapping away. He wore a mask . Were you present then? In what capacity?

Where on earth did I say I was there? Honestly, some of you people are ridiculous. And not even funny. Just odd really.

There was footage out there last year of helping with parcels of some sort, planting stuff, filling backpacks, families in need, bent down chatting to little children.

He looks happy enough mask or no mask.

The palace has played a blinder launching their investigation into the bullying.

How many times has Meghan gone on record saying that one of her greatest goals is help female voices to be heard and to support female empowerment.

If her female employees speak 'their truth' about her behaviour then if she walks the walk she should be celebrating the fact they feel empowered to do so. She should allow them to be heard and to listen without judgement. All her words. She can hardly call them liars can she?

If a massively wealthy person gives some of their income to charity, that's great, particularly if they just do it without taking photographers along, but what peeves me is when they start lecturing us plebs - eg people flying around in private jets all over the world while telling us to do more about climate change. Why not just shut up, do yourvgood works anonymously, paid for with a tiny part of your massive (earned or inherited) income?

one of the oddest things about mn is the hypocrisy.

countless threads ripping M to bits.
posters being hounded and ripped to shreds because they see it another way.
yet now M is a bad person because she might have bullied someone.
now obviously if that is true its something that needs to be looked at.
but maybe the posters that have joined in the online bullying should take a long hard look at themselves.

My thoughts exactly Samcro

Of course bullying of any sort is unacceptable, whether that is in the workplace or online, but some of those that are gleefully crowing about MM possibly bullying staff (independent review needed to establish) have been bullying MM incessantly.

@Samcro

one of the oddest things about mn is the hypocrisy.

countless threads ripping M to bits.
posters being hounded and ripped to shreds because they see it another way.
yet now M is a bad person because she might have bullied someone.
now obviously if that is true its something that needs to be looked at.
but maybe the posters that have joined in the online bullying should take a long hard look at themselves.

According to the ever reliable sources at the palace, ten former aides are queuing up with lots to say on the matter because they have been silenced for too long. That’s more than “might have bullied someone.”

but no one knows for sure yet. so I say might.
I assume if it is true there will be some kind of tribunal.

@Roussette

My thoughts exactly Samcro

Of course bullying of any sort is unacceptable, whether that is in the workplace or online, but some of those that are gleefully crowing about MM possibly bullying staff (independent review needed to establish) have been bullying MM incessantly.

Again, bullying is not justifiable because it happens to the person who is a bully. They are separate issues altogether.

The media has bullied Meghan and there are increasing reports from multiple people (with no reason to question their integrity) saying Meghan is a bully.

The palace will want to show they don’t tolerate bullying and will distance themselves from proven bullies as much of William and Kate’s charity work could be impacted.

so if the palace don't tolerate bullying why has it taken so long to come out?
its been a year since they walked away and here we are just before the interview.
timing is suspect and I doubt its anything to do with the palace caring.

There is no reason to question MM’s integrity either.

It is too late for any independent and fair investigation, due to dereliction of duty by the Rf to all parties involved.

The key person here is employed by Kate and William. And K &W may have been complicit in bullying and misinformation about MM &PH. The fact that the allowed this leak when their sister in law is pregnant after a miscarriage, is highly distasteful, to say the least.

This tit for tat shows them all for what they are...definitely nothing to look up to here

@Lookingforwardto2021 so true.

Does no one read anything outside this echo chamber?

The Earrings were a gift from the ruler of Saudi Arabia. She was told who had gifted them and advised not to wear them after the murder investigation of the journalist. It was her decision vs advice.

It’s pretty clear the Palace suppressed the bullying complaints. They have HR procedures like everyone else. They decided it would upset Meghan further. As the judge didn’t want to hear what staff had to say regarding the letter to her father, it seems entirely reasonable that their complaints are now dealt with as Meghan is no longer protected by the Palace. They should have investigated the complaints earlier, obviously. But better late than never! They deserve to be heard.

It’s been speculated for a long time about why staff left. There’s no time limit on investigations. Meghan can take part if she wants.

The Earrings were a gift from the ruler of Saudi Arabia. She was told who had gifted them and advised not to wear them after the murder investigation of the journalist. It was her decision vs advice.

Could you link to that? Especially the bit where MM was advised not to wear them.
I have heard different.
I remember Khashoggi's murder and it was quite a while afterwards before the finger was point at the Saudi government.

p.s. We really ought to look into the £11bn worth of arms sold to the Saudi Government in 2019... a pair of earrings pales into insignificance does it not?

This is how I see it (and I'm sure someone will point me in the right direction if I'm wrong) :

An American who used to work for The Firm has given an interview to The Times that accuses M&H of historic bullying and he names names.

The Firm covered up any allegations of bullying at the time so as not to throw MM to the wolves - they were protecting the newest member of the RF who was being given a hard time.

This interview has nothing to do with HMQ or W&C and nothing was leaked by them.

The Firm has said they will investigate how these allegations were handled at the time and the outcome may take a year.

I don't see this as a witch hunt of H&M but more a criticism of the bullying policy in force at the time - lessons to be learnt, etc, etc. However I do think the timing of this article is intended to balance out any accusations of bullying/silenced voice etc, made in H&M's Oprah interview. It won't end well for The Firm, that's for sure.

Bill A very balanced post and really quite possible, yes.
It just does seem odd on the timing, it could not be more fortuitous could it...
Coincidence seems so unlikely but who knows