Harry & Meghan, all welcome (aka positive thread, now renamed!)

[Roussette]

Here we are, let's inform, discuss, share and respect.

All the women in the RF have their clothes and hair commented differing views being common (lots think Kate is too staid). The men don't get commented on in terms of clothes but that's much more a cultural issue - women still being judged by appearance. Personally I think Camilla looks amazing these days!

Frankly there is no comparison in terms of the two situations.

TheNavigator

I think it is the gleeful detail in which posters like to dissect MM's clothes, appearance and imagined behaviour that contrasts with the PA threads. It certainly whiffs of an unholy trifecta of race, class and sexism to me, albeit probably unconscious for many posters.

That is quite an accusation, can you expand please ?

Not a case of being gleeful - I would say that the way Meghan portrays herself, and many of the utterances she makes, absolutely astound viewers/readers. Nothing to do with race, class or sexism - either conscious or not - they're just lazy pegs to hang it on! Her lack of awareness and entitled personality don't come across well to a large number of people.

I think it’s universally agreed that PA is a piece of and so there’s nothing to argue about?

Whereas H&Ms behaviour can be (and is) hotly debated as positive/negative. Also, PA has disappeared off the scene and is laying low, whereas H&M are starting their lawsuit and are the subjects of a new ‘tell all’ book, so are back in the media’s sight and they will be (rightly or wrongly) criticised for their behaviour.

I really don’t like the implication that we are a bunch of Andrew apologists because we’re not talking about him (in a H&M thread) but we are critiquing H&M. It’s an apples and oranges comparison to me and doesn’t seem fair to the majority of the posters.

For what it’s worth, I despise PA and don’t feel the need to debate his integrity. He has never been beloved or respected and it comes as no surprise that he has been found to be implicated in something sinister.

I really don’t like the implication that we are a bunch of Andrew apologists because we’re not talking about him (in a H&M thread) but we are critiquing H&M.

I agree. This is really out of line.

Just a diversion.

ok so my post went down like a lead balloon. but at least it got people talking

You haven’t answered the question, though

Well theres only so much that can be written about the hideous Andrew - unless another bit of news comes out, like today. He has disappeared off somewhere and we will probably never hear from him again in any official capacity.

With Meghan it's an endless drip feed of leaks, public appearances, tweets, books, court cases etc. It simply provides juicy tabloid fodder on a regular basis.

@TheNavigator

I think it is the gleeful detail in which posters like to dissect MM's clothes, appearance and imagined behaviour that contrasts with the PA threads. It certainly whiffs of an unholy trifecta of race, class and sexism to me, albeit probably unconscious for many posters.

TheNavigator how dare you continue to accuse posters of being racist just because a poster has dared to say something negative about MM’s dress style.

There is absolutely nothing racist in criticism of profligate spending (especially when the UK taxpayer is the one in the end to pick up the tab). Also nothing racist or sexist in saying that some of her clothes were ill fitted or inappropriate for the particular event she attended.

@ajandjjmum

Not a case of being gleeful - I would say that the way Meghan portrays herself, and many of the utterances she makes, absolutely astound viewers/readers. Nothing to do with race, class or sexism - either conscious or not - they're just lazy pegs to hang it on! Her lack of awareness and entitled personality don't come across well to a large number of people.

Absolutely!

It certainly whiffs of an unholy trifecta of race, class and sexism to me

Yes, the way to eradicate misogyny in society is to spend time on message boards aimed at women telling those women what bad people they are for posting the wrong sort of thing about other women.

It's also the fault of those women that a high profile suspected sex offender isn't being properly punished, because they're undermining that by talking about some other profile people. That's absolutely the root of the problem and where the blame lies.

No because Kate got the same sort of criticism for spending 2k on a dress. It only stopped when Meghan arrived and blew 50k, Kate's spending paled in comparison and people laid off her.

With Meghan it's an endless drip feed of leaks, public appearances, tweets, books, court cases etc. It simply provides juicy tabloid fodder on a regular basis.
You'd almost think Harry and Meghan didn't want a quiet and private life.

@derxa lol

Of course they dont. All they mean by 'private' is that they want the publicity to be on their own terms, aka no criticism for flying in private jets and spending millions on couture.

@AnneOfQueenSables I completely agree that the real scandal is that Epstein allegedly was trying to blackmail men with far more influence than PA by trafficking underage girls. And that there is so little written about those men. Are we supposed to believe that Clinton (who seemed perpetually unable to keep it in his pants) or Trump merely socialised with Epstein whereas PA was the only sleezebag?

Based on the Netflix documentary (not sure how much is true) Epstein seems to have been a horrific man who systematically abused underaged girls and further trafficked them to his friends. I personally thought he got away too easy and would have loved to see him in dragged through the courts and then put in a prison with other inmates for the rest of his life to get a feeling for how it feels to be abused.

I think there is an inquiry ongoing, but the cynic in me thinks that it will be delayed until after the election as too many US political figures are involved. I am reserving most judgment until after that.

As for Prince Andrew, I came across this article, which I found shocking

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/07/31/prince-andrew-allegedly-pushed-for-epstein-to-get-favorable-plea-deal/amp/

Again, I am waiting for the court case to confirm or deny this. If PA tried to influence, he was probably not the only one or by far the most powerful.

As for Prince Andrew personally, he seems to be a self absorbed, unpleasant and rude individual with few mitigating traits. However, I find the pedophile label incorrect in reference to Virginia as she was 17. I find it possible that he (if something happened) initially thought she was older and was stupid enough to believe that she fancied him. If he indeed went with her, he was at the very least a disgusting old man (many of those around!!!), possibly more. If he did have sex with her and realised that she was trafficked I hope he goes to jail.

But so many thing about this are speculative in awaiting the court case.

I also agree with @TheChristmasPrincess and @OVienna that the suggestion that posters here are PA apologists is outrageous. Not only because this is a thread about H&M and that most things will be decided by the courts, but also because most statements around PA will at this stage be speculative which we have explicitly been told not to do and as MNHQ has told us regarding M (she is a mother) PA is a father. The double standards are incredible in that case.

@ButteryPuffin

@ButteryPuffin😁😁

I think there is an inquiry ongoing, but the cynic in me thinks that it will be delayed until after the election as too many US political figures are involved. I am reserving most judgment until after that.

I need to say one more thing about this.

This is the bit that is really interesting about the Epstein story (and something which has nothing to do with PA in any respect):

What does GM have and on whom and how will this influence the US election?

I am sure that Trump and those around him would truly love to have something on Clinton that is so bad or could be milked to be bad enough to turn the election in his favour. Whether there is something, whether it would emerge before the election and who if anyone is pulling the strings on it would be fascinating to know.

That assumes that GM doesn't have comparable on Trump.

It could be useful to everyone to pump up PA's role in all of this as a distraction, to be honest, if T and the Democratic Big Wigs (apparently Gore went to his island too) are accountable for similarly horrible things.

Maybe no one is pulling the strings behind the scenes at all. BUT: they've all got money for the best lawyers.

We shall see. But this is not really a 'Royal' story in the same way that the H&M situation is.

Sorry - or is only tangentially related to PA. As I noted, it could be in various people's interests to keep the focus on him/increase the focus on him for now.

But I could be entering tin hat territory.

@TheNavigator

I think it is the gleeful detail in which posters like to dissect MM's clothes, appearance and imagined behaviour that contrasts with the PA threads. It certainly whiffs of an unholy trifecta of race, class and sexism to me, albeit probably unconscious for many posters.

What's the view like from your perch of moral superiority ?

It certainly whiffs of an unholy trifecta of race, class and sexism to me, albeit probably unconscious for many posters. How bloody pompous.
Why are you posting here then if we're all so unaware. It must be absolute torture for you.

So wish you could 'like' posts here!

It certainly whiffs of an unholy trifecta of race, class and sexism to me, albeit probably unconscious for many posters.

Does that mean that none of us are allowed to comment on someone who is a different class, sex or race even if we think their behaviour is questionable? In that case presumably we're not allowed to comment on Prince Andrew either as I'm guessing most posters are women and aren't upper class!

There are plenty of black women posting on Lipstick Alley who are critical of MM's behaviour - are they banned from having an opinion too?

It is interesting how riled posters get when you hold a mirror up to how their endless threads ripping MM to pieces are perceived