News on Meghan and Harry

[Viviennemary]

Since they are in the news more or less daily why not a thread on this. Latest I've read over the last few days is that Meghan is going to produce a film from a book. And later this month she is teaming up with Michelle Obama for project on gender equality. Both sound interesting projects.

Not sure if this has already been asked but if the letter was written to Thomas Markle surely the letter would be his to do what he wants with it. If that is the case then Meghan has no case as it's not her letter

That's the difference between copyright and ownership.

He is the owner of the letter as he was the intended recipient and he possesses it.

But the writer of the letter can remain the copyright holder (there's may be legal points around whether that is always the case) and so it should not be reproduced without the copyright holder's consent - other than small excepts for (fair) comment.

So the case will look at who owns the copyright, whether previously published accounts were authorised, whether TM's actions were reasonable (in correcting unfair comment) and whether AN should have published.

MM launched the case against AN, as she could hardly sue her own father, but I think the reasonableness of his actions may well be a feature.

Her case against them will be scrutinised, so to that ecpxtent she is fours on trial. But the way she put it is snappier than 'claimant' and feeds her wider (and already partially struck out) narrative.

It's not hard to understand what you're saying, it's hard to understand why you think that. My impression is that Harry had a good relationship with all of his family, his grandparents, all of his cousins, father, brother, sister in law. You think he wasn't a good fit in that family and was pretending to be. I think he was a popular and happy member of his family based on all of the photos of him smiling and laughing with them.

I think it's awful to suggest he was faking his happiness when with his family and it's because he didn't fit in with them, you can't possibly know that. Is it to make out that they really are toxic and Meghan saved him from the hell that he was living?

There is a strong impression given by them that they didn’t fit in and were not happy. That’s why they left. I doubt the relationship is the same. When are Charles and Camilla going to see their grandson? Covid permitting. They do want a different life and surely Harry was not keen to remain as close to family or he would have stayed and continued to work for the RF. Its highly doubtful that the same relationship can be maintained. There’s a gulf and it won’t narrow with the court case and Beatrice snd Eugenie being named in court papers. That feels very pointed and frankly, shabby .

You are just digging and digging for a reaction from me, so after this post, I am not engaging on this subject with you anymore.

I am saying we don't know that his grinning and smiling meant he is happy. I've said repeatedly, someone grinning and smiling whilst with their family doesn't mean they are 100% happy. I also added we don't know and that includes me.

If that's awful for you, I suggest you step away for a while because this subject is obviously upsetting you.

As far as your last sentence, I have said nothing remotely like that. Your words. Not mine.

Agree the copyright issue has always seemed clear and winnable. But it has been turned into a crusade about people being nice about her and she can't sue to get positive coverage.

I think that’s right, StartupRepair. The initial focus was in copyright but we now have the latest responses which focus on her lack of ability to refute what she considered to be bad press. So KP staff have been blamed. She wanted freedom to work so references Eugenie and Beatrice who have no Royal duties at all. It feels like she really didn’t understand the position and situation she was entering.

@StartupRepair @my0my don’t you think there’s a potential exception from copyright protection on the basis of fair dealing for the purpose of news reporting? They published extracts and not the whole, and it had become a legitimate news item by virtue of the People piece. I’m not sure it’s totally slam dunk but I’m not sure how much of the letter was published and how much was covered by the original Peiole article

The legitimate news item angle is what AN will argue regarding her privacy action. Copyright is separate and most legal opinion I’ve read suggests she owns the copyright under English law. They are two separate issues.

I think her complaints about “No Comment” from KP when she wanted to put the record straight as she sees it are now taking centre stage because she’s brought staff into it and her husband’s cousins.

I just said in passing that having a smile on your face doesn't mean that everything is perfect and you are happy. And we shouldn't assume that. I've always felt he has been a square peg in a round hole within the RF to be honest

So, according to your standards, it would be absolutely fine to speculate - in passing - that Harry is unhappy in his marriage and just putting on a brave face for the Zoom calls.

The copyright case seems very much like the instrument being used to air wider issues. But it isn't just about striking back at the Mail. (Incidentally, it's the Mail on Sunday not the Daily Mail, and while they are 'sister' papers they don't always row in the same direction - different editors, the MoS was Remain in the referendum while the DM backed Leave). It's a case about her relationship with her father. I find it extraordinary that she is willing to air the ins and outs of that relationship in court and that having a go at the MoS is worth it. I'm also surprised that she seems to have a very narrow understanding of what happens in a court case - e.g. that the other side will ask you questions and pick holes in information you have given them.

It feels like she really didn’t understand the position and situation she was entering

This really is the crux of it

She does own the copyright but under the cdpa there are several exceptions from copyright protection and this arguably falls within one of them. It doesn’t deny her ultimate ownership of the contents but says that making available a reasonable extract from it for the purposes of news reporting does not breach that copyright. Legitimate news item isn’t related to privacy - her previous disclosures to five friends / an agent / a lawyer and the apparent presentation of it precisely for publication suggests that she voluntarily waived her own privacy

To be fair, none of us know do we? Who thought Meghan was wanting to escape so early into her life with the RF? They do “duty” and real life goes on behind the scenes. It’s impossible to know what smiling means. Would you expect him to do? Look permanently miserable? Why wouldn’t he smile and look relaxed when he’s supposed to be enjoying his life now? It would be a huge betrayal of Meghan if he scowled throughout!

Legitimate news item isn’t related to privacy - her previous disclosures to five friends / an agent / a lawyer and the apparent presentation of it precisely for publication suggests that she voluntarily waived her own privacy

And the notion that the five friends all independently decided to approach the same magazine - without her knowledge or consent - to discuss a letter she hadn't shown them - is frankly laughable. But that appears to be her contention?

I wonder what the situation would be had MoS wrote the article as if TM read out parts of the letter to the interviewer, rather than them printing extracts. This may be where they lose on copyright because the article could have still gone ahead without printing parts of the letter. Although I guess putting the words of the letter in print, even if he had read it out, is still reprinting it. So maybe there wouldn't be a way to run the article without reproducing parts of the letter. Hmm.

Back to the baby groups.

The Montessori families and the Thomas's families will all have been scooped out and will have signed NDAs. LA is the home of NDAs.

Amy Schumer has a baby boy virtually the same age as Archie. I’m sure they can have play dates.

@Cartesiandebt

Legitimate news item isn’t related to privacy - her previous disclosures to five friends / an agent / a lawyer and the apparent presentation of it precisely for publication suggests that she voluntarily waived her own privacy

And the notion that the five friends all independently decided to approach the same magazine - without her knowledge or consent - to discuss a letter she hadn't shown them - is frankly laughable. But that appears to be her contention?

In the response it says one friend coordinated the group, and the editor of people magazine was friends with one of the group too. So they all agreed to do it together before approaching the magazine I think. The group were altogether in London visiting MM just before the interview I think it said.

What I absolutely can't believe is that not one of these friends thought to discuss it with MM first. Not a single one? Even more so after all the problems she had with her dad engaging with the press. I'd be furious if my friends did something like this without my knowledge.

I believe it's possible she didn't know they would mention the letter specifically. But even if she didn't, they still made it public and TM still had a right to reply due to the way they portrayed him.

Cartrsiandebt: that’s the argument of AN though. Isn’t it? I agree it’s powerful. She is suing for breach of privacy and copyright infringement. She says AN misused her private information. Obviously the hugely experienced and expensive QCs will argue each case strongly but the judge will apply the law. I guess we are all speculating but there has been little speculation in the press that she will lose the copyright action.

The AN barristers have asked some awkward questions about her friends and she has said they acted as they did because she was gagged. No doubt there will be more skirmishes on this. The injunction case should be up and running soon too.

I think the defence will call Omid Scobie. 53 seconds into this piece on Good Morning America, he says that Meghan "....definitely knew in her heart of hearts" the letter would be released to the press by her father:

Why did he think she definitely thought this?

It was also confirmed in the court filings that the letter was first written on a computer. Instead of being sent by email or even printed and sent as a typed letter, it was copied out by hand. The defence have asked why twice, with no clear answer.

Her friends had details of the letter. She didn’t keep it private. That’s what AN will be saying no doubt.

This is what she's put in her claim about how the interviews came about

Of paragraph 12.8(d): “As she later discovered, following visits to see her in London at the beginning of 2019, some of her close circle of friends became extremely concerned at the aggressive attacks upon her in the media and the palpable and profound impact which this was having upon her, especially as she was vulnerable as well as heavily pregnant at the time. As a result, one of her closest friends decided that they should help by arranging to give anonymous interviews to this American magazine whose Editor was a very good friend of hers in which they might explain what the Claimant was truly like (as opposed to the tabloid portrayal of her).

Oh my that Omid interview!! is he the one involved with the Finding Freedom book?

Yes, he's co-author and claims to know M and H.

That Omid video is clear that Meghan expected the letter to be published
Also, seems very odd that she wrote a letter to her father and then supposedly sent a copy to her solicitor
What was the reason for that?

in which they might explain what the Claimant was truly like (as opposed to the tabloid portrayal of her).

It seems to me that both M and her father have tried to portray ‘what they’re really like’ in different ways, and both by manipulating the media. Meghan with this letter and talking to her friends so that they felt the right image should be presented. She must have known what they were doing. In any case, the letter looks like it was written to be published.
Thomas through staging photos of himself because he didn’t like either way the media were portraying him, then giving interviews.
Samantha was at it as well by giving interviews because she felt the family were being ‘snubbed’, to use the awful DM word.
What is it that motivates them all to bare all in public?
Meghan looks more and more naive . She does not look she had a clue what the expectations of her would be in the RF. The blame for that must lie with the RF for not laying it out for her, chapter and verse. Also with her because she really didn’t need to look too hard to see what was required.
She also appears to have had no idea what a court case entails. No one in their right mind would have started in this road. It’s just beyond tawdry.
Why oh why do the pair of them not do what they keep talking about and disappear quietly, to live a private, dignified life out of the spotlight. They do have enough money to do that if they lowered their expectations.