When to euthanise? (Kidney disease)

[KDLangg]

My old cat (18) was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease a few months ago.

He’s on a renal diet and probiotics but the vet didn’t recommend any medication.

He’s lost lots of weight (used to be 5.5kg now around 3kg).

typical kidney disease symptoms including the weight loss,drinks loads etc.
His behaivoir has definitely changed,won’t sleep in his bed. A loss of some mobility etc.

However,he still sometimes likes a stroke/company and he purrs.

I know I have to make the decision to put him to sleep but I don’t know when the right time is,will it be obvious? Obviously I don’t want him to suffer. He is still happy ish. Don’t want to PTS to soon either.

Too many pet owners anthropomorphise their pets. The pet won't "know" they are going to die, they can't understand what is wrong with them, all they know is that they are unhappy and at the least uncomfortable if not in plenty of pain. Then owners torture them further with repeated visits to the vet, sometimes painful and/or distressing procedures, just to prolong this time. Maybe as a human you would prefer this, but animals live in the moment and couldn't possibly understand this.

Then of course you get the type of owner that @powershowerforanhour has been dealing with lately - wilfully blind to the state of their animals because THEY can't cope with the loss.

I'm not suggesting any of the posters on this thread are acting in either of these ways, really just explaining why there are some strong reactions from people who have seen this too often (me included, with dogs & horses mostly).

@powershowerforanhour thank you for caring so much, and putting these animals out of their misery. You remind me of one of my vets, who spent time with me discussing all the things to consider and look for when we knew Boycat's CKD was terminal. I completely understand her blatant signs of relief when I made it clear to her I was prepared to have the tough talk and go for a bit early rather than leave it possibly too late.

And the fact that she took the time to understand that each cat is different, and what may be tolerable and worth the extra time with some would be cruel for others.

I think at 18yo I would pts at this point, I would want them to go peacefully while they're still okay ish than wait until they were suffering.

It's the equivalent to them passing peacefully away in their sleep at a very old age.

Cats are very stoical and it is impossible to know if they're in pain 😥

Thankyou all.
@powershowerforanhour I cannot fathom not taking a vet’s advice just because you want more time with your pet.
With previous cats I’ve always asked ‘what would you do if it was your pet?’
It must be incredibly difficult when people don’t take your advice.

Following the advice on this thread I would like him to go peacefully before he suddenly goes downhill or has some horrible episode.

My nearly 15yo cat was diagnosed with stage 2 KD this week.

I have ordered him some renal food however as he is a hideously picky eater I have a feeling he probably won't eat it and we will just have to keep him on a normal diet knowing it may speed up the kidney disease.

He is having a urine sample and bp check next week, they suggested possibly a scan but not sure I will go that route - it would be to check for a tumour and as I am not sure I would do a big op like that at his age I am not sure if there is any point.

I think you are right there @KDLangg . Plan it well in advance (but of course prepared to bring it forward if necessary), make sure if it's a multi vet practice that you book in with the most sympathetic/empathetic vet, book time off work if you need to remembering the next day as well. Try to arrange for someone to go with you - I knew I wouldn't be fit to drive home after with Boycat.

Then spoil him absolutely rotten over the last week or so. It won't really make any difference at this stage whether he's eating the "right" food for CKD so just feed him his favorites - I remember sitting on the sofa with Boycat sharing a packet of sliced roast beef with him (his favorite) all snuggled up for the last couple of evenings together.

@Allergictoironing Thankyou. Some great advice there. He never turns down sliced ham so that will be his treat.
Planning is good,I will chat to the family/kids about it all. We’ve had him since before the kids so they’ve grown up with him.

Gosh I'm starting to feel really bad keeping my cat alive even if she does have kidney disease!! The vet never suggested PTS just to get renal food and get a np and urine sample. I got the food and she's loving it but wasn't going to put her through the bp check - maybe I should??? She is very thin but she does seem happy enough, she's 19 so doesn't do much which I'd expect, only thing is i do think she's still constipated!!

So I'm with you OP on the dilemma 😢

I've been owned by cats and other animals - domestic, farm and wildlife - all my longish life, with all the good and bad experiences that often entails. I've always made difficult decisions together with our vets to combine their expertise with our knowledge of the individual animal. Nobody on this thread should feel bad about doing their best to prolong the life of their pet where there is still quality of life for the pet, nor feel pressured into putting them to sleep. Those are decisions to be made only by you, together with your vet. Nobody else on this thread knows your cat and nor have they examined them and had access to test results.

The friend I posted about upthread who has, together with the vet, kept her cat alive for another year so far after almost putting to sleep, is only doing so because there is still quality of life. I can see, using my own judgement, that she is doing the right thing. If I disagreed, then difficult as that would be, I would say that to her. I know I won't have to say that at any point because I have seen with her other pets over the years that she will take that hardest of decisions when necessary in the best interests of that individual cat.

@Saltandvinegarsquares30 Perhaps ask your vet if lactulose would help with the constipation.

@Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky I have loads of kidney care food left if you’re near SE London! Sorry about your cat too.
I think once they hit stage 3 (mine was diagnosed at stage 3) then it is a quicker demise.

@Saltandvinegarsquares30 Yes similar situation and is exactly why I started this thread.

I’ve booked for my boy to be PTS mid week.
Feeling tearful today. I also have to go to work at lunchtime on the day which isn’t ideal but there you go.

Feeling bad about my 18y/o cat too now. The vets says she is happy even though she meows a lot. She has bad kidneys but not terrible. She drinks a lot of water, but still likes a cuddle and to traumatise the dog. My perfect solution would be for her to go in her sleep.
As for food @KDLangg, not sure where you are in SE London but Foal Farm would take it if still packaged ok. Or if you are near Beckenham there is FB page called BAGpuss and advertise it on there.
Big hugs, we've had our cat all my children's lives. My son declares he having a duvet day when she goes. Now have to navigate ALevels and GCSEs and hopes she goes at a good moment.

Sorry @KDLangg you have had to make that call. I had to have my other cat PTS only about 5 weeks ago as she had long term thyroid issues and then fluid on heart.

We had actually gone to a cat cafe the day before diagnosis and fell in love with a cat that looked as if she may have been suitable to live with our one.

However with his diagnosis I will have to park it as I cannot keep two cats on two different foods - it's too complex.

I am London / Surrey so will message you.

@chickenpieandchips don’t feel bad!
We all do what we think is best at the time and you can always ask the vet for their advice.
I’m not far from foal farm and Beck

Been through this and we kept her going until she was no longer the same cat personality wise and no longer enjoying life.

We did give up on the renal food for the last year as she didn't really enjoy it and we thought it was kinder to let her indulge in whatever her favourite food and gave her lots of treats!

Oh and I binned the renal
Food. She didn't eat it and was losing weight so thought eating a wet food was better than starving. She likes purina perle in gravy esp the fish ones. She also likes coming to the fridge for fresh chicken and salmon. My dog gets very excited and likes to tell us she needs feeding. Dog hasn't realised to pester us for fridge food even when the cat isn't there. Yep, it's a lab!

One of mine is 17 and has had a thyroid condition, which is medicated, for several years, and kidney disease. She's had (wet mainly) renal food for a couple of years - she likes it, so that's not an issue. Recently she has become bone thin, havibg always been plump, but her fur is still glossy and looks great. She's fairly deaf and her movement isn't as good as it was. Possibly has dementia - cries a lot when she can't see us but doesn't seem to know what to do about that. Otherwise she eats well and seems happy. I know she can't last forever, but I'm waiting for an obvious sign of decline before doing anything. The vet suggested some investigations but she gets so stressed now at the vet's, I don't want to put her through it, plus it won't' stop the ageing process.

I'd wait it out unless there is obvious stress or pain. Cats go quickly in my experience. My old cat suddenly started losing consciousness and died later that same day, whilst I was feeling awful knowing I'd have to take her to the vet the next day if she survived the night. That morning she had snuggled up to me happily. I was so glad I never had to make the decision......

Hello, I suspect kidney disease in my old girl, she’s 16 and has lost condition over past few months.
The biggest change over the past few weeks though is that she almost always wants to be outside. She will come in for a bite to eat but is constantly sleeping outside and will only sleep inside if the weather is rainy.

Does anyone have any idea what this means and why she may be doing this? She’s eating ok but is definitely showing her age now. There’s also a fair bit of yowling and we have to call her name to stop her doing it.

@Oldperithia My cat has been outside day and night in the warm weather. He can jump up onto the garden table no problem.

From our experience if they get a grade 3 diagnosis it’s downhill pretty sharpsih from there.

@Catshaveiteasy My cat finds the vet stressful. I had to give him sedation pills just for them to do a blood test,so worth asking for these if you want to take your cat in. You can dissolve it into a syringe then squirt in the the side of their cheek.

I'm just hopping back on to say Stage 3 CKD can still be managed and it's not all doom and gloom. It's where Elton is and with the right diet etc he is still fine. It might be because he's young but honestly at the moment you wouldn't know anything was wrong with him .

Just wondering if it has to be on a day you have to go to work, OP? As he is still able to jump up onto the garden table, be out in the summer weather and so on, it doesn't seem pressing in an urgent way. Perhaps you could be a bit kinder to yourself and pick another day, without compromising what you have decided is in your boy's best interests?

@MiniLeopardInTheHouse I’ve actually moved the appointment to thurs when I have a day off.
Weds was the first day that I could do with my work schedule and I was panicking that it needed to happen asap. I quickly realised that this was not a good idea! I work in the Arts and can’t be blubbing on stage!

OP, I think you'd have found that you had the sympathy of at least half the audience, but Thursday sounds like the better day for you.

I was panicking that it needed to happen asap.
This concerns me a little, that you felt panicked or pressured into booking the appointment for asap this week? From how you have described your boy, there doesn't seem to be an urgent need at the moment. Perhaps take time away from the thread and have a careful look at your boy, talk it over with your vet and family and think about it without the panicked or pressured feelings? You might decide that Thursday is still the best time or you might not. None of us can tell you that, but many of us completely understand your dilemma from experience and are thinking of your old boy and his family.