Why is my cat untrainable?

[Daisypaisy]

She is a nightmare! So cat is approx 10 months old, DD got her when cat was about 5/6 months as a therapy cat. Cat goes between here and DD’s fathers, so we have shared care of both!

This means that cat is a house cat as not sure she would cope with being allowed out at both houses, not get lost etc.

She’s a bit naughty, but she has learnt to use her scratch post/the door mat rather than the furniture.
She is very vocal! And will have a run around the back room and kitchen during the day, I work from home so had company. DD spends time with her on an evening. Cat is not allowed upstairs so doesn’t have free rein, similar set up at DD’s fathers house.

Issue is that she just refuses to be trained not to go on the kitchen worktops/mantelpiece/bookcase top. I’ve tried click training, water spray, firm no, tap on the nose. Nothing works. It’s driving me a little bit mad. She had down time, naps on the sofa in the day, comes with is in the lounge in the evening when we are in there.
So not lonely/bored/hungry/starved of affection.

I know she’s a cat and free willed, she and DD are made for each other! Any ideas welcome, thank you!

Op, you can't carry on treating the cat this way.
Stop hitting and spraying her.
Stop washing her paws - they groom
Themselves and you can get a mat for outside the tray that collects the litter.
Stop moving her between houses, it's unsettling her.
Allow her upstairs - you can't keep a housecat on one level.
You're expecting far too much from her, and to be quite honest being cruel. I hope this post is eye opening and helps for a better life for her

Why do people get a cat when what they really seem to want is a dog?

• taking her to places
• washing her paws
• "training" her
• putting her in a pen

@Daisypaisy

*viques* how dare you. You have absolutely no right to site my DD’s MH as the fault of her parents.

No, you are right, I shouldn’t have written that and I apologise.

You mention the cat doesn't meow when moving houses. Cats don't always show distress this way. In fact contrary to popular belief purring doesn't always mean they are happy and it can mean the opposite.

You seem to be dismissing what posters are saying about the moving between homes and washing the paws, but they are important points. I think more space will stop the climbing on surfaces too...gives her more stimulation.

@Prestel

A catio could well be enough for her. At 10mths she'd be really climbing the walls by now if she wasn't suited to being an indoor cat. There's nothing wrong with keeping cats indoors if you're prepared to put in the effort with toys and stuff and, indeed, is actually preferable sometimes such as if you live anywhere near a major road, for instance. Veterinari I love those cat shelves. I've never seen anything like that before.

There are loads commercially available. Vertical space is super- important for cats and even more so in multicat households

For all the people who are saying cats are territorial and will be stressed by travelling between houses I really feel I need to point out that the reality is that some cats are more territorial than others. So although some cats are more attached to places than people, some cats really aren't, as the below story illustrates rather touchingly:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54329606
"The cat who hitched a lift on a worldwide tour"

If the OP's cat was displaying stress-related behaviours then of course she should reconsider the arrangement, but the cat just seems to be acting like a normal, happy cat and as a PP said above, a few minor adjustments will hopefully lead to a happy owner too.

Seriously stop transporting this poor cat between houses, explain to your daughter how territorial cats are , google it it’s all there.
You probably wouldn’t recognise her stress signs you do seem a bit oblivious (sorry)
Cats like places to run and hide when they want, hence most people let their cats upstairs for quiet time.
Hope you take notice of these comments your cat will be happier if you do.

@Prestel

For all the people who are saying cats are territorial and will be stressed by travelling between houses I really feel I need to point out that the reality is that some cats are more territorial than others. So although some cats are more attached to places than people, some cats really aren't, as the below story illustrates rather touchingly:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54329606
"The cat who hitched a lift on a worldwide tour"

If the OP's cat was displaying stress-related behaviours then of course she should reconsider the arrangement, but the cat just seems to be acting like a normal, happy cat and as a PP said above, a few minor adjustments will hopefully lead to a happy owner too.

With all due respect considering the OP is clearly totally clueless regarding caring for a cat, she probably isn't aware of the cats stress signals and could be mistaking them for something else entirely! So not actually putting the real issues here.

OP stop using bleach on your surfaces, dangerous for the poor cat. It could also be encouraging her to go on the counters more as they are attracted to the chlorine, it mimics a certain pheromone.

I’ve never heard of a cat having two homes like that. They’re creatures of habit. One home, has its slaves, does what it likes. That’s why the cat is unsettled.
It would’ve been better to have a dog. A dog can move between homes and is more portable and loyal.

@Daisypaisy

I really don’t see the issue with cleaning the paws of a cat who doesn’t clean them properly herself. She leaves litter on the worktops 🤢 It’s not like it’s a daily occurrence, it takes 2 minutes.

Just clean your worktops before you cook, then.

You're treating this cat like a dog. She really doesn't need you to wash her paws for her!

I’ve had 4 cats and the first 3 never went on the worktops - I didn’t train them out of it, they just didn’t do it. So if you have experienced cats who didn’t climb on worktops before it doesn’t necessarily mean they were successfully trained out of it.

Of the four cats, 3 would have found moving between households stressful, one would have been fine with it (in fact she often came on holiday with us).

Three of them were outdoor cats and would have hated an indoor life, one was a contended indoor cat.

Three hated water, one played in the sink.

Point is all cats are different - I agree you can’t really change a cat’s nature, you have to work with it, but people assuming OP’s cat must be unhappy don’t know the cat.

Godmothered You don't need to be an expert to pick up on things like yowling when being transported in a car or weeing outside the litter tray and the OP says she doesn't hide. Admittedly more subtle signs like splashing about water from her bowl or over-grooming could be missed by most people, but I feel a lot of assumptions are being made about this particular cat being stressed based on generalisations rather than the behaviour of the cat itself which mostly sounds like it needs more space and places to explore which the OP is looking into. Looking after cats is a learning experience for everyone who hasn't done it before, it doesn't make someone unsuitable to keep a cat. We all have to start somewhere. And I agree moving between houses is not an ideal set-up and not to be recommended generally but this one cat has been accustomed to it from a young age so it's perfectly possible it's not stressed by it. Assuming something with no specific evidence and then criticising her for it isn't going to help the OP take better care of this cat, it's just going to hound her off Mumsnet. The tip about the cat shelves was very helpful and I definitely think a catio would be a good idea, as is the litter mat. The OP sounds willing to try all these things and hopefully they'll be of help.

Pets cab really help with mental health and it’s great they such a bond. But would you consider a cat at each house, please?

I’ve just had a read of cat stress symptoms. I was aware of some, the list on Battersea’s site is more comprehensive. The only sign she has previously displayed is that she sometimes does not use her litter tray overnight. She has done this perhaps two or three times, definitely not a regular occurrence.
She can be a little picky with her food, this is generally when she does not have fresh (frozen and cooked) fish available to her, and she has a pouch instead! She always has access to biscuits and fresh water obviously. I’m sure this will not be good enough for some of you though

Re the bleach, I obviously rinse really well. And dry with cloth rather than leave to air dry.

I’ll keep an eye but as I have previously says, she is not unhappy, she plays, loves cuddles and affection, is definitely a knee cat.

Prestel you have to admit though the average cat wouldn't like this. Yes we don't know exactly how the OPs cat is responding...but I'm afraid I agree that it doesn't sound like she might pick up on subtle cues as she doesn't sound knowledgeable about cats. They don't always meow when distressed.

And the OP has had a hard time on here I agree some replies are blunt...but I can see why some feel bad for the cat. I think people have taken umbridge with the water spray too. And she doesn't sound willing to let the cat upstairs. When you add it all together it doesn't sound like a great outcome for the cat...I'm not saying she's cruel or unsuitable for cat ownership. Just that she's expecting quite a bit from the cat and perhaps she could change her approach and then the cat might stop walking on surfaces etc. I for one really think it needs to be allowed upstairs if she's not allowed outside. She needs space to roam.

I really detest the pile on you can see on MN, but I do think people are raising legitimate issues and the OP isn't taking it on board.

Crossed post there with the OP!

O/p- fwiw I have a rescue cat that lived in two rooms for it’s first 2 years. No vertical climbing, no jumping.

She now clearly hasn’t developed properly. Her back end is very bony with no muscle at all, and he back is slowly hollowing. She is 5 now and it is physically hard for her to jump and climb, even though she loves being up high. We’ve had to teach her how to go from one shelf to another.

She has free run of our house yet still confines herself to one room, it’s where she feels secure.

It’s not normal though, and it’s sad to see. She loves spending her days outside, she sniffs flowers and chases butterflies, or lies in the sun. It took us 2 years to get her outside though.

Cats need space to run and jump, and to hunt.

@Sweak

For an example on the moving between two homes not being fair on the cat...when we moved house my cat was really sad, not herself and it's taken about two years for her to adjust! You can't overestimate how territorial they are.

Do you have any books on cats? I read some before I got mine and it helped me understand her little ways.

When I was growing up we used to do big family Xmas at my grandmas and everyone would bring their cats as well as the dogs. All 6/7 cats over the years were totally fine with it except one. They even used to let them outside! They were just used to going in between houses because my family started it when my aunts/mother were students and went back and forth a lot.

Similarly, I was worried about moving house with my cat. She absolutely did not care. On day one she resisted our attempts to keep her quiet in her own specially prepared room and ran around and had a good sniff but despite previous owner having two cats she was completely chilled.

I half wonder if it’s because she’s an indoor cat. She’s never been scared or had to fight for territory so I just think she just doesn’t have that fear/awareness that most cats do.

So yes a cat between two houses is unusual but unless the cat is showing signs of stress (spraying, urinating in weird places , cowering) I don’t see how you can all say it’s suffering for it.

Some cats long to be outdoors and it would be cruel to keep them in. Some cats don’t pay attention to what they’ve never known. My cat likes to look at windows but you can open doors and she doesn’t go outside. It’s not always cruel to keep them indoors and it’s actually considered cruel in some other countries to allow them out!

I really don’t understand how you have trained a cat to stay downstairs but can’t get it to stay of work surfaces ! I think some cats just jump in them to be high up and some find something better. We’ve never needed to discourage ours she’s just never been keen. You could try putting something higher up and hoping she’s more interested in that, but she’ll probably just chill out with age.

You can get a mat which you put outside the litter tray to collect the litter from her paws, or switch litter, I found much less mess with wood. (You have to transition very slowly).

Mine is a house cat due to the area but I take her out once or twice a day on her harness and lead, unless it's raining because she point blank refuses. Your local pet shop should be able to advise on the best harness, never use a lead with a collar.

I also put double sided sticky tape on the counters because she hated it, I did make it slightly less sticky to begin with as I was worried she would get hurt. This works much better than the water or a tap because it doesn't seem to be linked to you as you're not doing anything.

@Daisypaisy

I’ve just had a read of cat stress symptoms. I was aware of some, the list on Battersea’s site is more comprehensive. The only sign she has previously displayed is that she sometimes does not use her litter tray overnight. She has done this perhaps two or three times, definitely not a regular occurrence. She can be a little picky with her food, this is generally when she does not have fresh (frozen and cooked) fish available to her, and she has a pouch instead! She always has access to biscuits and fresh water obviously. I’m sure this will not be good enough for some of you though

Re the bleach, I obviously rinse really well. And dry with cloth rather than leave to air dry.

I’ll keep an eye but as I have previously says, she is not unhappy, she plays, loves cuddles and affection, is definitely a knee cat.

@Daisypaisy

Fish diets are imbalanced and likely to lead to problems such as thiamine deficiency.

You make need to re-evaluate her diet too

You can't move the cat between to houses. It's just not fair on it.

Prestel you have to admit though the average cat wouldn't like this
Yes, absolutely and if anyone asked if it would be OK to move a cat between houses like this I'd say don't do it, but when it's already happening it's too late to advise not to do it. As there is no evidence that the cat is particularly stressed I feel it's more helpful to focus on the problem the OP asked about as this could lead to suggestions which would really help improve things for both her and the cat. I 100% agree the cat needs more space to roam which is why I supported a catio.

As for raising legitimate issues, yes that's fair, but I think these things can be pointed out more kindly and the same things don't need to be repeated in every comment. I'd expect that on AIBU but I'm just a bit disappointed to see so much unconstructive criticism on the litter tray which is usually more supportive.

@Prestel

Prestel you have to admit though the average cat wouldn't like this Yes, absolutely and if anyone asked if it would be OK to move a cat between houses like this I'd say don't do it, but when it's already happening it's too late to advise not to do it. As there is no evidence that the cat is particularly stressed I feel it's more helpful to focus on the problem the OP asked about as this could lead to suggestions which would really help improve things for both her and the cat. I 100% agree the cat needs more space to roam which is why I supported a catio.

As for raising legitimate issues, yes that's fair, but I think these things can be pointed out more kindly and the same things don't need to be repeated in every comment. I'd expect that on AIBU but I'm just a bit disappointed to see so much unconstructive criticism on the litter tray which is usually more supportive.

X10

Why are my kids ??? 😂

Are the biscuits she has access to a complete food?