Bitey Siberian and new baby

[KO2018]

Hi Mumsnet

I’m 20 weeks pregnant and the owner of a 2.5 yo Siberian forest cat. He’s a beloved pet, particularly for my husband who won’t hear a bad word against him. However, he has always had a problem where he will grab and bite onto arms for no reason.

Nothing we have done seems to provoke or stop it happening. I’m certain it’s a dominant thing not playful, as he’s quite aggressive to other cats in the neighbourhood and always coming home with injuries. He’s come back with three puncture wounds from separate fights just this week, and that’s only from the daytime as he’s locked in at night.

The trick is to completely freeze when he does it which stops him from biting down hard, and often turns into licking. You then have to very carefully and slowly remove your arm from his death grip... It doesn’t happen that often because we’ve learnt not to ever wave your hands in front of his face.

My very real concern is how this is going to work when baby arrives. We are not planning on leaving them alone in a room together, but keeping cat and baby apart for potentially all their childhood seems like a stressful situation for all involved.

I’ve been trying to put the idea in hubby’s head that we may need to rehome him when baby arrives. We want to give him a chance first to see whether they get on okay. But at what cost?

Has anyone had experience with this? The whole situation makes me want to cry

Ok in that case I'd focus on making the indoors as relaxing as possible. He needs a safe haven where he can snooze undisturbed

Some sensible suggestions for things to try above - but have you had his teeth checked? The only time my cat started biting, it turned out he needed a tooth out. Since then he's never done it. Also feliway is very good & much less than £40/ month if you buy online (I just got 3 refills for £36 from Fetch, so £12 a month!)

Are you okay? I would type out how ridiculous you're being but I feel you already know and just want to be goady

Toddler is not being goady. She is a regular in The Litter Tray.

Who are you again?

Thanks all. Lots of things to try.

My husband has said he’s going to get a spray-bottle/water-pistol and get him if he tries to go for a bite. Might require a bit waving arms into the danger zone ... but want to see how bad it is and whether we can train it out of him.

I think worth a shot at anything to avoid rehoming.

@KO2018

Thanks all. Lots of things to try.

My husband has said he’s going to get a spray-bottle/water-pistol and get him if he tries to go for a bite. Might require a bit waving arms into the danger zone ... but want to see how bad it is and whether we can train it out of him.

I think worth a shot at anything to avoid rehoming.

Please don't do this. It's a terrible idea. You've had some great advice and been provided with reputable resources. Why would you ignore all of that and go for an unpleasant punishment that us likely to increase your cat's anxiety and ruin any relationship you have with your pet?

FGS get some professional behaviourist advice and stop planning to abuse your cat

Actually I've changed my advice. Don't bother doing anything. Just rehome the cat. Your husband is an idiot that insists on picking up and cuddling a cat that is anxious and doesn't like it and thinks that spraying with water is a solution to anxiety. He's an idiot. The cat will be better off elsewhere.

Hope your child behaviour management skills are better than your animal behaviour skills.

I also have a rescue Sib who was mistreated and he can be a bitey little fucker. You're right it's about reading him, if it's not what he wants then he'll let you know. My DH can be too full on and for that he bears the brunt of the attacks.

To be honest I've alway been very surprised. He's quite good with kids, so long as I make them aware of his temperament. I understand that won't be the case with a toddler, but so long as your Sib has his own territory and can still be near you but out of the way - his own safe space, ideally up high. Then you might be ok.

Agreed with others, spraying is a terrible idea. Plenty of kind & sensible things to try!

Well, that escalated quickly! I’ve heard that a water bottle is a good way to train a cat but this also seems to be divisive advice.

Again, I’m quite happy to listen to anyone’s opinion but I don’t appreciate being that my husband is an idiot and that I am going to be a crap mum

@KO2018

Well, that escalated quickly! I’ve heard that a water bottle is a good way to train a cat but this also seems to be divisive advice.

Again, I’m quite happy to listen to anyone’s opinion but I don’t appreciate being that my husband is an idiot and that I am going to be a crap mum

Ok then engage your critical thinking.

You have a cat showing clear signs of anxiety (spraying, aggression) who wants to come inside relax, snooze and be left alone.

Instead, yr husband insists on picking him up (why?) and when the cat shows he doesn't like this interaction by biting, your husband plans to punish the anxious cat who protesting against unwanted handling by going out of the room picking up a spray bottle/water pistol and then coming back to the anxious cat (who at this point is not biting anyone) and randomly and unpredictably spraying him with water

Can you understand why that's a terrible idea? If not then yes you and your DH need to read up on the relationship between emotion and behaviour and applied learning theory, or are you planning on punishing you child when they're frightened and overwhelmed too?

Absolutely no reputable source will advocate spraying water on a biting anxious cat. If you aren't able to differentiate between reputable and non reputable sources then seek professional behavioural advice or rehome.

I had this dilemma with a dog that didn't like children. We managed safely, though it was stressful. A stairgate was useful to keep them separate, and doors and extreme vigilance on my part. We had a large house, and garden, which helped.

So I managed to keep the baby apart from the dog, and slowly taught the baby/child to respect the dog. I worried she's end up scared of all dogs, but it had the opposite effect, and she grew to love all dogs, including this grumpy old thing we had.

I wasn't happy having playdates at our house though, as it was one thing to put my child at risk, I daren't do it with any other toddler.

Good luck with your choice, it will be hard whatever you do. My OH was also extremely reluctant to re-home the dog, and we came to the solution that worked for us.

I think a cat would be even harder, because they cannot be contained by a gate, and can jump and sneak. I'd be concerned it could climb into the cot or pram.

@Veterinari As I said, I am happy to take your advice. Clearly I don’t know what we should do otherwise I wouldn’t be posting for advice from other cat owners.

There’s no need to send personal insults to me or anyone else on here.

Hi @Changethetoner that must have been horrible but very glad it worked out okay! I wouldn’t our little girl to grow up afraid of cats either but having animals around are also great for kids to learn how to treat them with respect etc. It’s difficult..

I always grew up with very gentle cats so it’s a bit of a surprise for me. If he was a biting dog I guess it would be a very different story, that would be very hard.

One of my cats is a bit of an angry, bitey thing. We handle it by giving her a good amount of personal space, never picking her up (she will come for cuddles when she wants to) and Zylkene 75mg sprinkled into her dry food each day. She's fine.

Your husband needs to understand that some cats don't like being picked up and cuddled. They're not toys. They get stressed easily and their only defence is biting and scratching.

In my experience, cats avoid babies like the plague. Once the baby is a toddler, you teach them not to touch the cat. They soon learn.

Get the vets to check the cat out as dental, or other, pain can cause aggression. There is also a Royal Canin food called 'calm' which can help.

Raw dried valerian can help - you just give them a pinch to chew on. Dried chamomile also. When mine feels stressed she comes and asks for herbs.

Get a Feliway plug in and a valerian based plug in - there's one called Calm.

Set up a safe space for the cat. Buy a tower with a cubby hole in where the cat can hide. They sell them on Zooplus. It's the barrel type one. It has hidey holes and a place to sit on top. Cats like to be up off the floor so they can feel safe.

Get your husband to watch Jackson Galaxy channel on YouTube.

I was scared of cats for years because we had a scratchy one growing up. Cat bites can be nasty so I'm glad you're addressing the issue now.

You haven't got a clue about how cats work clearly. This thread is in stark contrast to one I've recently posted on where an aggressive dog is actually biting her child yet the advice is overwhelmingly to keep the dog at any cost

This sounds like a completely normal cat to me. It would be highly unusual for the cat to literally seek out your baby and attack it.

Don't spray it with water. Stop your husband hoiking it up all the time and keep a careful eye on things and all will probably be well.

My cat is always 'attacking' us. They are not dogs. They don't show dominance in the way you seem to think they do. Stop annoying it and I'm sure you'll be fine

Thanks @MelodramPatheticism Never knew they had herbal medicines for cats! The strange thing is the cat has no problem being picked up. He doesn’t bite us when he’s picked up and often starts purring and looking around happy as Larry.

It’s mostly at random times in the day when he’s sat on our laps... so possibly petting induced or redirected aggression from something outside? It’s really hard to know. Best thing is probably to give him space.

Oh and he also hates being brushed. That’s a pretty high guarantee you’ll get a violent reaction!

I'd rehome the cat if I wasn't confident that there was no risk to my child, and it would take a lot more than a few sniping remarks on a MN thread to give me that confidence.

Are you petting him when he's on the knee?

Many cats will happily knee sit, but don't want to be touched at the same time.

Does his tail flick or move whilst he's sitting on the knee? This is a sign of irritation or anger and a warning from the cat that it's getting pissed off.

Cats don't mount attacks in the same way that dogs do. They're more inclined to run away from a baby or child than to deliberately go up to it and bite or scratch. They will bite if handled or have unwanted petting. They don't have the brain power or social capacity to attack out of jealousy. They're more likely to register their distress by peeing on the duvet or spraying. They're more reactive than proactive, like a dog.

I've always had cats around my children and have even had a couple of bad tempered ones, but my kids were never bitten.

There’s no need to send personal insults to me or anyone else on here.

Where have I personally insulted you? I called your husband an idiot. My apologies. I should have said that his plan was idiotic and borderline abusive.

When you're planning on punishing an animal that's telling you it doesn't want to be petted, by throwing water on it then yes that's a stupid plan which dies nothing to address the trigger of the behaviour.

I know this is a very obvious suggestion, but maybe just don't pet the cat. It clearly doesn't like it. Petting induced aggression is a well known phenomenon and entirely normal. The cat has appropriately communicated that it doesn't like being petted, and you and your DH seem utterly unwilling to change your own behaviour to stop this from happening and instead want to punish or rehome or interpret this as the cat attempting to dominate you and attack your baby...

Just stop petting the poor bloody thing.

I would rehome the cat.

Just to say, if you do re-home the cat, don't use any of the online ad services or Facebook etc. Either return it to the breeder you got it from or get it a place in an actual rescue.

Hi @MelodramPatheticism he’s normally fine on laps but will occasionally do the swishy tail thing in which case we withdraw. As I say, we know the signs, so we almost never get bites any more - the problem is other people don’t know, and a small child certainly won’t understand and it’s his reaction that’s the worry as he’s so strong and quick...

He does go through phases so we will monitor him over the next few months and see if any of these suggestions help.

I’m going to check out of this thread now before it gets too unpleasant but thanks to everyone who’s given advice (without resorting to questioning my mental faculties, choice of husband, or parenting abilities)

I’m going to check out of this thread now before it gets too unpleasant but thanks to everyone who’s given advice (without resorting to questioning my mental faculties, choice of husband, or parenting abilities)
Literally no one has questioned those things

You've simply been told that punishing an anxious animal who is communicating normally is stupid and likely to make things worse. If you wish to take it as a an attack on all of your life-choices that's up to you. But it isn't what was actually said.

You've had some very good advice and recommendations for reputable resources: Seek proper behavioural advice, optimise the environment, and stop triggering your cat's anxiety by doing things you know he dislikes. Don't engage in idiotic, abusive punishments you find on the internet.
Good luck.