Cavachons - tell me everything

[middleagedandinarage]

I grew up with a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and would love another one but their health issues put me off. I'm really not a "poo" fan but have also been considering a Bichon then I realised that Cavachon's are a thing. Can anyone give me first hand knowledge what this breed is like? I've only ever met 1 Bichon irl and it seemed a little neurotic

I'm not sure why you're being so snooty about her breeding mongrels. Everybody knows they're crossbred, nobody is being deceived. She's just breeding happy, healthy family pets - and there's lots of people who'd much rather have a mongrel than an inbred pedigree.

As for being able to take back her puppies if their new home doesn't work out, firstly it's nothing like a dozen puppies a year that she breeds. It's more like six - as I explained, she breeds on a very small scale. Secondly, I can only think of one time that a puppy has been returned over all the years I've been following her. I think that's testament to how well she breeds and socialises her dogs and the care she takes in homing them. Anyway, this one pup came back, not through any fault of its own, and she found it a new home within a couple of weeks.

I'm not a breeder and so don't know the regs, but Google seemed to suggest that most authorities (including the Kennel Club) permit four litters per bitch over her lifetime and several said up to six litters was permissable. I couldn't find anyone (except for you) saying that two was the maximum number of litters a bitch should have. Under the circumstances, I don't actually think that allowing a healthy bitch with a proven track record of uneventful pregnancy and easy delivery to have four litters is unethical. It would obviously be a different case if the mother dog had difficult pregnancies, complicated births, required surgical delivery etc.

Given that having four litters is apparently so awful and disgusting, it follows that two litters is not exactly a picnic either so I'm quite surprised you put your own dogs through the process of breeding at all. Why not just keep them as pets and spare them the horror?

Almost all pedigree breeds seem to suffer from health problems, due to either inbreeding or conformation. There are countless examples: we only need to look at the German Shepherd's sloping back and subsequent hip issues, the Golden Retriever's predisposition to cancer, or the French Bulldog's pathetically short lifespan to see the harm that has been wreaked on dogs by "reputable" breeders. I know who I'll be getting my next dog from.

Anyway I'm going to hide this thread now. Things always go a bit weird once the purebred totalitarians appear...

Have you heard of Lhasa Apso dogs?
IMO they fit your bill beautifully, perfect little family pets. A 4000 year old Tibetan breed, with woolly fluff so they don't shed.
Gentle and they instinctively know to match your energy, so if you are all going on a long walk they'll be delighted to join you, or if you just want to stay in by the fire, they'll do that too.
On top of that they are long lived and stunningly beautiful.

Or you can do what I did! Take a dog grooming course and then do it yourself!

@CatherineHoward17 ah. You didn’t like your breeder being called out so you’ve gone for simple attacks on me being a breeder. Let me break it down for you:

1. just because the KC and others say you can breed a dog four times doesn’t mean you should. The more pregnancies a dog has, the more danger she is in for serious complications later in life. I don’t know a single breeder, that I would recommend, who breeds a dog more than twice. It’s incredibly unethical. @redboxer321 and I don’t agree on much, but even we agree on that. And I doubt you’d find a single, knowledgable, person on this sub who thinks it’s okay. The only people who breed a dog more than twice, or think it’s okay to, need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
2. Breeding a healthy dog, fully mature, with excellent health scores, a proven ability to work (fulfil their original purpose) and excellent temperament once (one girl I bred twice. In 21 years, I’ve never bred a dog more than once other than her) is very different to what your breeder did. My dogs are some of the healthiest in their breed in terms of health scores (my youngest girl is about to get her ‘early’ health tests - because you shouldn’t result on tests before a dog is fully grown as it skews the results - to check if she can be bred from, and then I’ll do follow ups when she is mature. I’m expecting her hip scores to be 1/0 which is incredible for her breed). I have wait lists over two years in the making. I don’t breed before they’re three and not after they’re five. So yes, it is different. Not only have you admitted your breeder overbreeds their dog to to point of abuse (because no one who is an animal lover thinks a litter every year is okay) but she even breeds dogs with defective genes. As we said, not ever cavalier has the defect…so why is she breeding the ones that do? Could she not be arsed to find healthy stock?
3. UK GRs don’t have a predisposition to cancer. That’s the US.

So, to conclude: Me and your animal abusing puppy farmer breeder are in no way comparable.

I’m not a ‘totalitarian’ I just don’t like animal abuse supporters who want their designer mongrel so much they’d happily let dozens of animals suffer for it.

The fact is, you COULD have bought a health cavalier pedigree or healthy Bichon if you had been willing to wait and done some basic research to find a good breeder. But you didn’t. You got your designer dog and supported abusive animal breeding practices.

But, just as people CAN buy GSDs without hip issues, you could have got a healthy pedigree of either of your dogs. Frenchies are awful; but that’s a reflection on the sort of people who own them and people who buy them rather than the breed just as supporting animal abuse is a reflection on you.

I note you’ve hid the thread. Probably for the best. No one who knows about animals, dog breeding or basic ethics of ownership is going to be amused by your comments.

I was thinking we were agreeing on more and more these days! Oh well 😆
Fundamentally, I don't agree with breeding or even keeping dogs as domesticated pets (even though I do) so I guess that's a pretty big difference.

As for Catherine, I won't bother replying directly as she's hidden the thread but she totally misunderstands my point. I've got the most mongrely mongrel sat here next to me. Definitely not snooty about crossbreeds but there is not justification in breeding them imo (I understand breeders may have to add to the gene pool to make the breed healthier but that's not most people think when they talk about breeding crossbreeds).

"Frenchies are awful; but that’s a reflection on the sort of people who own them and people who buy them"

Agree sort of but can we limit this to just people who seek them out as puppies to buy them (thereby perpetuating the continued suffering of bracy dogs) rather than rescue them? I'd hate for us to contribute to a world where people are less likely to rescue a dog for fear of judgement having a bracy breed :-(

I know of another poodle owner who did this. She has a standard poodle so grooms were absoute ££££££ for her.

She must have saved thousands. I estimate over my dog's lifetime I will (hopefully assuming I have her for many years to come) spend £16k-£20k on grooming 😳😳😳

@redboxer321 that’s more what I meant (we agree on things, like ethical breeding, but not the ‘breeding’ in general). But we can’t start agreeing on too much…I’ve grown fond of our disagreements (mostly because it’s always interesting to someone’s informed, knowledgeable opinion).

@TheFinalNotch 100% agree!! Huge difference between rescuing a badly bred dog (usually dumped because it doesn’t fit the ‘criteria’ [such as not being hypoallergic] or is really expansive due health issues as a result of bad breeding) and seeking one out for paying £4K+ for it!

I think opinionated someone with strong views rather than truly knowledgeable at least! But thanks 😀
You're right that we agree on ethical breeding, ie if you are going to breed, be the best breeder you can and, if you are going buy from a breeder, make sure it's the very best breeder you can find.

Why don’t you get a poodle ? There’s a post on here on miniature poodles where owners rate them as lovely dogs

I'm not against a miniature poodle but I think they're quite high energy, more looking more a little lap dog who just wants to go for a mooch around the garden and spend the rest of the time cuddled up on the sofa

How old is DD @middleagedandinarage

A cat?

we have a cat already

She's 8, very much an animal lover and is very good with them. I would be very surprised if she doesn't pursue a career in something animal care related. We already have a cat, chickens, guinea pigs and sheepdogs which she spends a lot of her time looking after. I am fully aware the dog would ultimately be my responsibility I'm just painting the picture that DD's fully aware of the work involved and she's unlikely to get bored of the dog after a few months. DD loves the cat but the cat likes to spend a lot of her time out on the farm and although she'll lie with DD for 5 minutes or so, generally she prefers her own space.

Is she the youngest? It's just you say "the collies have no interest in the kids".

If she is, how about rehoming an older dog? Obviously she wouldn't have it for so long but she might have more of an idea about life and death seeing as she lives on a farm. Wouldn't be easy to find especially with the other animals too but not impossible. Older dog would likely be lower in energy than one younger so more likely to be ok with a mooch around the garden.

No our youngest is 5, sensible and animal savy for her age I think but doesn't have the same animal interest as DD8.
We have thought about a rescue/older dog, might be difficult finding one that will fit in with the rest of the animals though.
We're in no hurry so definitely not something we would rule out.

My cousin has had two, both neurotic and couldn't be left for a minute due to hysterical non stop barking. I was amazed that she got a second one. Very cute to look at and they didn't shed but a lot of work.

One of my friends has 3 female cavachons and they are fabulous. Well behaved, sociable and very healthy. Someone else mentioned a Lhasa Apso. Another friend has one of these and it is the most gorgeous dog. So loving but well behaved and easy in all ways. She was the cutest puppy I've ever seen and now she's 7 but still not very big. Does need very regular grooming though. We have a full King Charles Cavalier and he certainly doesn't fit the lap dog description. He only has fuss on his terms. He is very loving though and hates being left home alone. He's healthy so far as age 5 but know he is likely to develop problems down the line