Cavachons - tell me everything

[middleagedandinarage]

I grew up with a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and would love another one but their health issues put me off. I'm really not a "poo" fan but have also been considering a Bichon then I realised that Cavachon's are a thing. Can anyone give me first hand knowledge what this breed is like? I've only ever met 1 Bichon irl and it seemed a little neurotic

I know a lovely cavachon, great cuddly chilled family dog, he is also a complete food thief. (Ace family dog just don’t leave any food anywhere he can reach or it’s his)

Bichons are lovely little dogs. I think a well bred one will give you everything you want.

I can only speak for my daughter's cavachon, who is cuddled up to me right now. He is the sweetest natured little thing...he was their baby until their children came along but showed no jealousy and is so patient and tolerant of them (they are aged 3 and 1). He hadn't had many health issues as far as I'm aware and is certainly not neurotic. Only thing is he does bark a lot!

I think I know the perfect dog for you! I have a cavalier cross (not -oodle or -chon) from health-tested parents, who is a delight. She adores my children (and any others she meets - I'm frequently stopped by parents of young children, asking if they can stroke my dog). She is very snuggly on the sofa. She loves her walks, but once she's had her walk, she's happy to chill at home. She can be left for several hours quite happily (she comes downstairs to greet us and we find a warm patch on a bed where she's been snoozing). She does love to chase cats, squirrels etc but she quickly learnt not to chase our cat. She's middle aged but very healthy so far.

Anyway, I'm not offering you my own dog (she is very precious to us, even my DH who was initially reluctant), but if you would like her breeder's details, let me know!

If the health issues bother you buying a cavalier cross inevitably bred by someone who doesn’t health test is not the answer.
Speak to the cavalier club and get them to help you find a breeder that extensively health tests including MRI scans. You might have to wait 2 years+ for a puppy but I think it’s probably worth it

I have a 13yo cavachon who is the best behaved, chillest dog ever. She’s totally healthy, no issues at all.

Saying that when I got her i wasn’t really aware of cavalier health issues and it could potentially put me off another. But they have bigger heads so aren’t likely to have the brain issue but I guess could inherit a heart issue. I’m on various fb cavachon groups and I don’t come across messages from people with ill dogs. No idea what the actual stats are, if there are any.

Mine is a bit stiff these days but still manages a 3 mile walk most days. If she had a day or two where she didn’t walk she’d be fine with that. She’s happy on the sofa for sure. Very well natured and relaxed. Took ages to house train which apparently is a bichon thing.

I’ve had a greyhound with chickens and a cat. I think especially if you get a puppy you’d be fine with a whippet. The whippet not needing grooming is an advantage over a cavachon who will need a trip to the grooming parlour regularly. Mine goes every 7 weeks. Unless you are competent yourself.

Yes very inportant to remeber that anything with poodle in it will cost you £60-70 every seven weeks at the groomers. Otherwise the dog develops painful matting. Poodles were an ariatocrats upper class dog after all....

Obviously that grooming fee will rise over 10-15 years. Will probably be £100 odd every seven weeks in 2036

Health tested doesn't really mean much though. What about the grandparents health tests? Great-grandparents? Did you see them or were you able to see them? I will provide 6 generations (minimum) of health tests for all genetic conditions for my dogs as well as hip/elbow scores (to highlight just how small the chance is, genetically - assuming the owner doesn't fuck it up - of my dogs getting joint issues). How old was the bitch when she was bred from? How many litters had she had? What happens to her when she can no longer be bred from? Why was the stud chosen? How was it chosen? What are both dogs/grandparents/great-grandparents personalities like (I looked at a stud recently who had a working line grandparent - immediate veto for me, not the same thing in a companion dog, but a good breeder will consider that).

Also, people always say 'my dog is brilliant, here is my breeder' and that's great.

But I own Twatdog. My sister owns his littermate. They have the exact same genetics (obviously), had the exact same upbringing for 8 weeks...everything was the same. Twatdog is, as you might have guessed it...an utter Twat. Even at 6 weeks, I knew he would be a wanky twat. Sister on the other hand? Lovely. So again, your dog being lovely doesn't really mean much...because even in litters, raised the same way for 8 weeks, dogs can be very very different.

And of course none of this takes away from the fact OP would be playing Russian Roulette with the skull issue. Isn't it about 90% of Cavaliers who have skulls too small for their brains?

So whilst I am absolutely sure your dog is lovely, the fact remains that people shouldn't gamble with their dogs health and should do far more research than having someone say 'my breeder was lovely.'

Personally, as a breeder, if I get approached with a 'I was recommended you by X' as an opening line...I lose interest pretty fast unless they have something else to back it up. I want my buyer to have done their own research into me, my dogs, the studs. I don't want them to have clicked on Champ Dogs, or MN, or KC or facebook and clicked on the first person who was recommended. It's a bit lazy (I think personally). None of that said to be harsh, but I do think it's a tad naive to throw out, 'I think I know the perfect dog for you' when so much goes into the perfect dog, let alone a good breeder.

We have a cavachon - she is the sweetest girl ever, she loves to cuddle and have her belly rubbed and curling up on the sofa. She enjoys a walk but hates being off the lead for a long time as she is very attached and can worry. She hates going out in the rain (even to wee) 🤣 - she is great with my son, they are good pals she will sit with him on the sofa and cuddle in. The only down side is her bark can be annoying 🤣🤣

she’s coming up to 10 now so she is much slower, and a few health issues are appearing - but think that’s more to her age than her breed.

we love our girl

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks makes a good point.

With puppies, to a certain extent you just dont know what you are getting. Obviously you can test the living daylights out of the parents health wise but the puppies personalities still remain to be seen. training will influence it somewhat but not the whole way.

An adult dog is who they already are if you see what I mean.

Only get a puppy if you are prepared to roll with whatever personality you get!

Thanks so much for all the replies. It's just such a minefield! I really don't want to support these rogue breeders and we're in no hurry so i'm sure the right dog will come up 🤞🏻 I keep hearing about Cavachons being super sweet, happy little dogs and I just hoped the Bichon would dilute the Cavalier issues but I know what is a huge gamble/hope

I have also experienced this with friends dogs, different litters but same breeding. Completely different dogs in personality and looks

I think you would suit a Havanese, if you can find one.

But I own Twatdog. My sister owns his littermate. They have the exact same genetics (obviously)

…but they DO NOT have the exact same genetics! That’s the whole point about first cross breeds! You cannot predict which dog will inherit which genetics from a parent in any given litter. When one breed is crossed with another, the resulting offspring are not a 50-50 mix of each parents. If you’re interested, read about Thomas Malthus and his sweet pea experiments.

My dogs are pedigrees. But the point still stands; they have the same parents and yet are completely different dogs with completely different temperaments, health scores and personalities.

Throwing random breeds into that, such as a poodle, adds further complication and risk.

I don't think that's true...in a first cross (F1), each pup is a 50-50 mix of each parent breed. It's the second cross (F2) where things get much more unpredictable, because although the pups each carry 50% of the DNA from each parent, you dont know which 50%. So in the case of a cockapoo-cockapoo pairing, it's possible that one pup may, due to the random nature of gene mixing, inherit mainly poodle genes, another may inherit mainly cocker genes, and others have varying proportions of poodle and cocker spaniel genes.

However, even in a first cross with all pups in the litter being (for example) 50% cocker and 50% poodle, the pups will all look slightly different and have different personalities, just as a litter of purebred puppies do. This is because dogs are not clones of each other and most traits are coded for by multiple different genes. Each pup is likely to get a slightly different combination of genes, so they will have different characteristics. In addition, even if they're all brought up together, they will have different experiences and these also shape the dog they become.

I agree with all your points - but the breeder I got my dog from has been doing this, on a small scale, for many years. She only has one or perhaps two litters a year (not from the same bitch - her bitches only have two-four litters and are then spayed and kept as pets). They are checked and certified for CM/SM using MRI scanning. They are also checked for heart defects (mitral valve disease), both by a canine cardiologist and by the new DNA test. All the results are there to see. She chooses the stud to complement the bitch, so if the bitch carries a gene that might predispose her to MVD (as most cavaliers do), the stud (eg cocker spaniel) will not.

Of course, it's never possible to guarantee that any dog will be free of genetic disease (and sometimes de novo mutations crop up too) but I do feel as sure as I can be that this approach minimises the chance of poor health outcomes in the puppies.

@CatherineHoward17 I'm going to try really hard to be polite.

But four litters from a bitch is absolutely disgusting. More than two is completely unnecessary.

If they're being bred when they are actually physically and emotionally mature that's a litter every year, which surely you cannot think is acceptable? Most reputable breeders agree a dog shouldn't be bred before she is two, at a minimum, and once she turns six. So if she is waiting until the dog is physically and emotionally mature...that's a litter (as you say she breeds some girls 4 times) every year from when the dog is two until she's six. How can you not see a problem with that? It's absolutely awful.

The only people who think it is acceptable to breed a dog that much are, almost always, designer doodle and designer mongrel breeders and exclusively puppy farmers (and of course Pets4Homes. Even the KC frown on 4 litters...). No one who actually loves their dog would ever do that to them.

So, whilst your breeder might have done all the health tests...she's fundamentally a terrible human scumbag for doing that to her dog.

But littermates don't have the exact same genetics. AI tells me that "each sibling inherits a unique combination of genes due to random inheritance patterns". Having the exact same genetics as another takes you into Dolly the sheep territory.

But I agree with @TheHungryHungryLandsharks that @CatherineHoward17's breeder sounds pretty awful. A breeder is supposed to be in a position to take a dog back if/when their original home fails. How the hell is she going to do that when she has bred on average about a dozen pups a year for many years. And what justification is there for breeding hundreds of mongrels over her 'career'?

It really is true. Siblings, including human siblings, do not have the exact same genetics.

Cavachon owner x 2 here - i also don’t recognise a lot of the issues mentioned here, although like many breeds, they can develop a breed specific issue.

One is 16(!!) and at end of life but doing super well, such a gentle nature, beautiful with children and quiet. She is now partially sighted and pretty deaf but otherwise doing well, although I know her time will come soon.

Second is 6 - a little spunkier, but still absolutely fab with kids, gentle as anything. She barks a little more but not particularly frequently.

Both are great with other dogs - although the older one is a little shyer with age. They haven’t had any issues with their health of any note - although one does have hip dysplasia, its not presenting any issues as of yet. They are good with recall, and are pretty much lapdogs, but that might be my lifestyle! They just like being around people. No territorial traits, no resource guarding, no anxiety. They come with me a lot of places, but I have no issues leaving them at home.

My younger one is fine with a couple of hours of leisurely walking - or - shorter period of more intense hill climbing etc, older one is not good for that anymore but used to be!

younger one still very playful with toys, older one does not care, but hasnt for a long time tbh.

i would say if you want a very active lifestyle with your dog, a bigger breed is better but perfect for someone like me who just strolls!

I should add, both are F1s from different ‘families’ but both had KC mums, Bichon dads.

The older one came to me from a family member whose health didnt allow for them to continue - so dogs weren’t ‘raised’ together.

We had a cavachon. Honestly, she was the best family dog. Very chilled, universally loved. So sweet. The only reason i didn't get another was that I didn't want to compare another cav to her. She did have a heart condition when she got older (from the cavalier side) but lived a very happy 10 years.

@redboxer321 you are right on the genetics point! I was being a tad over simple - my point was more even with two Goldens, or any two pedigrees, you cannot be sure.

I really should know better, but I blame walking and typing...which is not my forte.

More broadly, I am actually once again really disappointed that on a thread about doodles/designer mongrels, not one actually good breeder has been mentioned - whenever the 'breeder' is expanded on there is always something wholly unethical about them. In what (two years? 18 months) I've been looking at these threads, not one has been mentioned in passing... it's honestly just depressing at this point.