Vet removed 22 teeth without asking me

[MyJollyJadeBird]

AIBU to think this vet should be reported?
I left my dog (8yo) with my vet to have a dental clean and polish, but when I collected him, they had removed all his upper teeth and some lower. He was wailing. My regular vet had warned me there were 4 teeth that might have to be removed. But a different vet did the surgery. My regular vet apologised and said they stood over their assessment of 4 teeth that day, but couldn't explain the other vets decision. Since then they've been careful to put nothing in writing.
AIBU to think this was criminal and if so, what recourse do I have? I don't want to report the whole practice because they've been so lovely up until this, just the surgeon vet!

Fuck!! You have to report them I'm afraid. That seems like criminal negligence!

What did the other vet say? Id expect a call if , when they got started, it became apparent that more work was necessary.

What the actual?? 😲 Why??!

I'd report that too. Bloody hell. They should absolutely have phoned you to discuss that before they went ahead.

Fucking hell, you have to report this!

You must report it immediately, your poor poor dog.

By the time I'd finished with him, he'd no longer be a vet.

your poor dog ❤️‍🩹

Or they were worse than expected when able to be examined in detail under anaesthesia and the vet has done the animal a kindness removing rotting painful teeth? What motivation does the vet have for taking out healthy teeth. None.

It isn't possible to tell how many teeth are diseased from looking in a conscious dog's mouth, so if the first vet genuinely advised exactly four teeth needed to be removed, that was a big risk.

To accurately assess the teeth, dental x-rays need to be taken and also the "pocket" between the teeth and gums needs to be measured for its depth. Were dental x-rays included?

Also, were you given a copy of the consent form you signed? That should have included permission for any extractions deemed necessary. Finally, have they sent your dog home with pain relief? Some wailing after an anaesthetic can just be dysphoria (confusion/disorientation) rather than pain but of course pain relief needs to be optimal.

What breed is your dog?

Set up a meeting with the regular vet, surgeon vet and practice manager, ask to see his records, xtrays, consent form and reason. I would report the individual surgeon vet to the veterinary governing body. Poor doggy, I hope he has painkillers and recovers soon. I would not be paying a penny until I had a full explanation.

Presumably when you collected your dog following the surgery the vet explained why they removed all those teeth? I would assume that the removed teeth were either full of cavities or so loose that once the plaque was removed the teeth fell out?
How did they explain it?

When my cat went in for a dental they phoned me when they had had a good look under anaesthetic to confirm what they were going to do. That’s normal in my experience.

writing.
"AIBU to think this was criminal"
Almost certainly yes.

"and if so, what recourse do I have?"
If you think it's criminal I would think you have to prove that the vet wilfully and deliberately caused harm to your dog.
From a civil/cost POV- depends on the wording of the consent form I would think.

Vets routinely contact pet owners if more extensive work is required, my cat had surgery recently and the vet spoke to me in speakerphone to get consent for a tiny addition to the procedure.

this vet shouldn’t be allowed to operate again.

Is there a possibility they confused your dog with another patient?

To everyone assuming the second vet is a criminal, we really need more information from the OP before we can draw any such conclusions.

Extracting teeth is not a fun activity - it is really unlikely that the teeth were healthy. It sounds more likely that there was poor communication if anything.

What treatment did you consent to when you signed the form? Were you contacted at any point to say the treatment required was more drastic than initially thought and was it OK with you to proceed?

The wailing may be due to recovery from anaesthetic, but it's a drastic way to proceed from a regular clean and polish to removal of so many teeth.

I think you need a full explanation - in writing - of what went on, what was administered, and under whose authority. If they do not agree, there's always here: Concerns about veterinary professionals | Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.

I'm so sorry. Hope you and your dog will be OK.

My dog has problem teeth and every time they’ve not been able to tell me before hand if there may need to be removals. On the one occasion two teeth needed to be removed the vet called me first to tell me.

I can’t imagine how distressed your dog must be - did they give you the teeth?

eta the vet showed me the removed teeth and explained why they had to be removed. I didn’t take the teeth home but I could have done

You need to speak to the vet who performed the surgery. It’s possible things were a lot worse once they could get a proper look, but they usually contact you to tell you this before doing it. Did you have any missed calls? Speak to the vet who operated.

Our cat went in for a dental, thought she’d need 4 teeth out but they needed to take out 10. They could have left a few but she’d have probably needed them out at some point so it made sense to do it in one operation.

Here is a useful guide to how dental assessment and treatment should be carried out:

https://www.rvc.ac.uk/small-animal-vet/general-practice/practice-services/routine-pet-healthcare/pet-dentistry/dog

My dog went in for a dental and came out with considerably fewer teeth. I trusted that the vet had made a clinical assessment while able to get a
proper look under anaesthetic and decided it was in her best interests to have them removed. If they’d called me half way through to ask me if it was okay, she’d have still had them removed but would have most likely been under anaesthetic for longer than necessary. I trusted the vet to know what needed doing.

You haven’t said what they told you when you collected your dog, why not? It’s probably the most important factor for anyone wanting to reply to you.

Poor communication as they should have called you mid procedure to update you that the dental disease was worse than expected.

However, nothing worse than that.

Comments here are dramatic.

They didn't remove healthy teeth, no vet would, it's no fun removing teeth!

Your dog had extensive dental disease. It is often only notived under GA and after oral xrays, so easily missed by intiial vet.

"Extracting teeth is not a fun activity"

This is spades. We're not the Little Shop of Horrors dentist guy. My sympathies are with vet #2. This is why I like to book my own dentals in- underestimating dental work/time/numbers of extractions (and thus also cost) happens aaaallll the time for a number of reasons chiefly
-over optimism , clients are nervous enough about the GA, worried about animal's ability to eat after multiple extractions and often more cost sensitive about dental work than other stuff so nobody wants to be the one to say yeah he'll be under GA for ages and it's going to cost a bomb

• even in a dog with a perfect temperament whose mouth isn't sore at all, you cannot adequately assess teeth conscious. They're almost always worse than they look because all the action (attachment loss) is below the gumline and doesn't always correlate to the amount of tartar, or even the degree of obvious gingivitis The roots are as long as the crowns. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised and dogs need fewer extractions than I thought but this are outnumbered by the dogs who need more by about 20:1

I don't see how you can do a thorough assessment on a dogs teeth that are covered in tartar while they are awake. How would the first vet have any idea if only 4 need to come out before they've be cleaned?

The vet won't have removed teeth for fun. It's likely once they actually took a good look and cleaned everything up there was a lot more disease than anticipated. They should have called you but it depends on what you signed on the consent. If they were doing an exam under anaesthesia + removals as necessary then it's not negligent or criminal

They charged £200 and he wasn’t in there more than 90 mins