Nervous new puppy not eating or drinking and scared of lead

[BlueBoy2]

I have just brought home a 16 week old cavachon and hes really nervous. I thought he was 14 weeks but when we worked out date of birth it was 16 weeks.
We tried to ut a lead on him and he freaked out. He won't eat, take a treat or drink.
Im worried he has t been socialised at all even though breeder said he was.
What do I do? How do I introduce him to anything I can't even get him on a lead?

I'm so sorry, @BlueBoy2 . As hard and upsetting as it is, it's probably the right decision. It sounds like the puppy will need a lot of behavioural help, if not medical.

Lots of people are fooled deceived by puppy farmers every day. People often post links on here to lovely, glossy websites, thinking they have found good breeders, but are really fronts for puppy farms. It's very easy for someone new to dog ownership to fall for them.

I know how excited you were about your puppy and you tried to prepare as best you could. If you decide to try again, please post in The Dog House and people can help you find a good breeder.

I know you’ve decided to give him away but honestly it’s been what 24hours? I got a rescue dog once who was like this for a couple of weeks but then came out her shell beautifully. Didn’t need any extra behavioural work.

I'd agree. But I also agree with @TheHungryHungryLandsharks that this thread has been restrained, certainly compared to some that I have seen. Absolutely brutal threads are not uncommon, and the OPs run away and are never seen again. It pisses me off every time it happens.

And whilst I agree that the puppy needs a vet check, and is probably poorly socialised, it's also worth noting that some puppies (including well-bred ones - it can happen) are nervous - they can look fine with the litter, and then glue themselves to the floor and won't eat when arriving at their new home. We had one like this, who stayed rather nervous of new situations but, with time, gentle handling, gentle pressure and encouragement to push her out of her comfort zone and lots of engagement, grew into a social, playful adult dog.

I wish we could have pinned posts on this board, starting with 'Advice for choosing a dog. 1. How to decide what breed or mix might work for you. 2. Puppy or rescue - pros and cons. 3. How to spot a puppy farm. 4. What should you look for in a breeder? 5. Health, COI and genetics.'

Edited for my inevitable typos 🙄

I agree. It can definitely take some time for a dog to settle, even perfectly healthy ones. Going to the vet is a great idea, but if the vet says there is nothing medically wrong with the puppy I wouldn't go straight for rehoming. Owning a dog is a huge committment and this is part of it, albeit, perhaps a trickier part that OP had realised. It does sound like he is very slowly coming out of the panicked by fear stage. Sending him to a shelter or a new home again is likely going to make it worse for him. Only do that if you are absolutely certain that you don't want to put any work into raising him.

I think giving up after 24 hours in an over reaction tbh, he sounds like a normal puppy to me.

I agree that giving the puppy up so early is OTT but if someone isn't emotionally, mentally, educationally or financially equipped to deal with the unpredictability that is a puppy (well bred or otherwise) it is probably better to regret the impulse and sort it out with someone who is able and willing, sooner rather than later. Hopefully, lessons have been learned here and others can learn and not repeat.

I’m sorry you’ve ended up in this situation, and well done for trying to make the best of it. Once you’ve got today out of the way, whatever you decide to do, you should talk to the council as a matter of urgency to report an illegal breeder. Also, if you believe you were misled, trading standards is also an option. I expect the person from the rescue could advise you of more, but it’s really worth doing to stop this happening to other poor dogs and potential owners.

Agreed. I took on a dog, who was approximately 18 months old, clearly not been socialised by his former owners, origins unknown. He was very frightened at first and didn’t look after his basic needs. After a couple of days, he settled.

I tried to kennel him once for 2 nights, this was pre dog sitting and boarding in a group, and he hardly ate or drank, so I didn’t do that again. I think he thought I’d abandoned him. I now know I should have trialed it, but he’d been kennelled before for 6 weeks before I got him, so it didn’t occur to me.

Your dog will adjust. Just give him time.

Whereas I agree a well bred puppy wouldn't act like yours, occaisonally you do get one that might to a lesser degree. You got a puppy that you weren't ready for as first time dog owners, and you needed a breeder who will give you more preparation and guidance.

This all sounds a bit impulsive and not very well thought out - I hope the puppy finds a new home.

He absolutely does not sound like a normal puppy.

The OP has made her decision. She feels she hasn't got the knowledge and experience to help this puppy. People now piling on and saying she's being rash are only guilt tripping, and not being helpful.

No, OP has done the right thing.
A puppy that is nervous of people isn't the right fit as a family pet. And that's without looking at all the other stuff, not eating, drinking & yelping when picked up.

Personally I’m referring to the situation as a whole when I say it sounds very impulsive - it’s not meant as a criticism, just an observation.

The important thing now is that the puppy goes to someone experienced and able to put the work in.

Perhaps we should do one and ask MN to pin it? Come to an agreement (can we do that?!) about what to look for in a breeder and ask HQ to pin it?

@BlueBoy2 for what it’s worth, I think you’ve done the right thing - you’ve had him overnight and an afternoon and he should have toiletted and be drinking normally long before now. Even my best ‘trained’ puppy would have needed to wee and poo by now (Golden Retriever - clean from 10pm-6am from 8 weeks).

And he shouldn’t be timid. A timid puppy is not a good thing. They might jump away from a loud noise (for example) but their overarching instinct should be to explore and be inquisitive. For example if you dropped a bowl next to your puppy, it should jump but then it should go straight into ‘oh what’s that’ mode.

People always forget how resilient a well-bred puppy should be. They want to trust and they want to explore. The world is literally their oyster. They shouldn’t be fearful, even if they’re going home late. Their first fear phase ends at about 12 weeks and starts again at about 6 months - but even during that, a well-bred puppy (not from a puppy farm and well raised), should trust their knew family completely. All a happy and well bred puppy should know is how to trust absolutely.

If you do buy another puppy, please consider coming back here for advice - and please do consider a pedigree. It’s a lot easier to tell a good breeder from a bad one if you go with a pedigree and it’s a lot easier to figure out health testing as it’s so straightforward.

But the most important piece of advice I can afford: don’t blame yourself. These people are the ultimate scam artists and the lowest of the low. Finding a good breeder takes time, patience and a lot of effort - people can wait months or even years for the right litter from the right breeder - and it is easy to make mistakes when you’re new to dog ownership. And it’s easy to get sucked in.

Take it back. Seriously.

When i first got my dog as a 8 week old puppy, i had to sit next to him for him to eat his dinner, he was easily distracted and he wasn't a huge fan of the food he had been on with his breeder, as a result he was very tiny (predicted adult weight from his weight at 8 weeks was about 8kg he's ended up a lean 17kg adult).

Also the first time i put a lead on him he screamed like a Banshee. He didn't want walks for a bit, he just loved his garden 'kingdom'.

He's 9 now and totally ace.

There are at least 4 of us on this thread who are either professional trainer/behaviourists, breeders of decades experience, gundog handlers, rescue centre stalwarts or veterinary staff.
Our collective wisdom and experience (and no,we quite often have to agree to disagree on threads here 😂) have led us ALL come to the same conclusion as the OP.

I'm willing to try!
I think there's a sliding scale of breeders, and a sliding scale about what matters. Also different things will matter to different people with different circumstances, so there will probably have to be a list of points to consider with pros and cons - I know, for example, that we really differ about cross-breeding.

Maybe 'Why not to buy from a puppy farm and how to spot one' would be a less contentious place to start. Happy to DM.

ETA, I realise now that OP has decided not to keep the puppy. Probably a good call.

I admire anyone who tries to improve the current situation but I am not convinced a pinned post on MN will make any difference.
The information is out there and not difficult to find.
Further, and this is not to criticise the OP but to make the point, she said she knows a "lovely lady at a rescue charity". I can't believe this woman would have advised the OP to buy a 14-16 week old cavachon, especially having not met the mum and knowing nothing about the pup's lineage.

Perhaps other people are less glass half empty than me on the matter.

All this.

Personally I don’t expect a puppy not to be scared of anything ever - what I’m looking for is how quickly they bounce back from a scare.

I want them to go quickly from WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?

to

Ooooh… actually, what IS that?? Hmm interesting… let’s see…

@redboxer321 To be fair, knowing a lovely lady is different to being friends with them.
I foster for a rescue and many people can say they know me and could ask me for advice about rehoming or rescuing dogs. I doubt very much they'd approach me for advice on puppy buying.

@EdithStourton My problems with cross breeding is there are so many 'designer' ones now, that really have no need to be bred. Lots have poo or chon or both in the mix. And they are almost exclusively bred from unhealth tested parents. The price tags are ridiculous too. A cockerpoo from untested parents often sells for more than health tested cockers and poodles.
I've had a sprocker, so I'm not against cross breeds if done properly and for a purpose other than making money. (With saying that, he was a rescue - bred for money during covid lockdowns and suffered a short life of ill health. Which kind of reinforces my points.)

@SpanielsGalore But you are the fosterer. The OP didn't say she knew the fosterer, she knows the woman who is involved with the rescue charity. Whether they are friends or not I don't know. I think asking someone who is involved with rescue would be the best person to ask when buying an older, x-breed pup.

The point being is that some people don't ask or read info to stop them getting into this kind of situation in the first place. Having said that, a pinned post on MN won't do any harm and I hope it does a lot of good.

Unfortunately only those already knowledgable to at least a certain level are even aware of the potential issues and would know to ask for advice. Bastard back yard breeders prey on these people, who get taken in through little fault of their own in many cases
The OP may not have had the knowledge to even know problems could be there, let alone how to avoid them by asking acquaintances!
Any info is good imo, even if it only helps a few

I think we're pretty much on the same page here. Any breeding should be done carefully and with a purpose in mind. A lot of cross-breeding is shoddily done, and anyone buying a cross needs to do their due diligence a bit more carefully. Too many crosses are produced for the cute portmanteau name and the resultant £££ with little to no thought about conformation, temperament and health - never mind giving the dam a good quality of life and socialising the puppies properly.

That said, the closed gene pool of pedigree breeds is a slow-motion disaster, because high COIs will almost certainly cause increasing issues as the years go by. Random crossing isn't the way out of this, but thoughtful out-crossing is.

I grew up with street dogs always in the background, which has probably influenced my thinking - they gave me a respect and love for mongrels and landraces.