Help! How do you choose a breed?!

[MoiraRoseIsMyQueen]

We’re starting to think about getting a dog, but I’m totally bamboozled by choosing!

We’ve always had rescues in the past, but now with two young children this isn’t an option for us unfortunately. I’m really struggling to find a breed that might work for us. I think we need something that’s not too big - I’d love a retriever but I think they’d just knock my kids over (and I’m not sure I could cope with the hair!) I met a lovely working cocker the other day, but the others I’ve met have been utterly mad 😂

We’d also love a dog that’s quite affectionate/people-oriented - our lurcher was the best dog in the world but she was a bit aloof and I’m not sure that will work with the kids (my son is unbothered and I think he needs a dog that will love him). Other than that, I’m not a massive fan of small fluffy/toy breeds, but equally I wonder if we’re up to managing the full-on energy of a working/retriever type. Having said that, we’re an active family with a garden and living next to a massive field/woodlands, so we’d definitely be up for something with a bit of energy!

Any suggestions or recommendations? Much appreciated 🙏

I’ve seen this opinion shared a lot on other threads, and I wanted to ask - why? Is it not just as sensible to dilute the genetics to prevent inbreeding? Aren’t you just as likely to get health issues in pedigree lines as with two breeds crossed by a reputable breeder?

This was why i didn't go down the cockerpoo route with my current dog.

I wanted a medium size low shedding spaniel cross, so I ended up with a Bedlington terrier X working cocker spaniel, he is amazing, loving, adores kids but high energy and was challenging as a result when he was younger (hence why i haven't recommended one to OP), but as a 9yo he is the best and still super fun.

The more obscure crossbreeds tend to be hobby breeders or 'mishaps', and are a great way of finding a lovely dog if you spend some time researching different breed characteristics, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

You will find strong views both ways.

I would never own a pure breed after our family dog as a kid. Show cocker from a reputable breeder and KC registered. He had hip dysplasia, ear problems, eye problems and stomach problems, and Spaniels aren't the worst of them, brachiocephelic breeding is just cruelty, plain and simple.

But you do need to be super careful to avoid 'fronting' if you are buying a popular crossbreed.

@MoiraRoseIsMyQueen

The problem with these designer doodles, is the healthiest pedigrees aren't being used, so the off-spring are automatically off to a bad start. The best breeders, with the healthiest pedigrees, are breeding to make their own breed better - they're not breeding for money, or to create mongrels.

I always use myself as an example. I breed Golden Retrievers. I have a boy right now with some of the best health scores I have ever seen for his breed. I could - and have been approached many times in fact - use him to breed Golden Retrievers or Goldendoodles. I don't do either. I don't breed him with other Golden Retrievers because his genes are already in the pool through his mother, his father and one day through his sister- all I would be doing is saturating the gene pool with more dogs related to him and I want to keep the breeds coefficient down. I don't breed him with Poodles for two reasons; (A) I breed to make my breed better and (B) I don't breed for money.

Most good breeders you would want to buy from take a similar stance. I could probably make high five figures if I bred him to create Goldendoodles - particularly given how few of them have decent health tests - but I don't.

And health scores matter. If you look at any of these Goldendoodle, or cockerpoo, or cavapoo, breeders (particularly those with snazzy websites), you'll see how few of the dogs have any health tests at all - let alone good health tests (and let's not get started on how most of them overbreed their dogs and then dump them). But getting back on track, the lack of health tests is a problem.

Many of the dog breeds being used to create these designer dogs suffer from the same health issues - dysplasia and PRA (prevalent in spaniels, retrievers and poodles) - so just because they're different breeds doesn't mean they're healthier. Very often they're worse off because of the lack of care over breeding.

And even if, by some miracle, you find one with health tests. They almost certainly won't be up to the standard that you should want. A good breeder won't just have the health tests of mum and dad, they'll have the results of the grandparents and great-grandparents as proof that the lineage is healthy - you just don't get that with designer doodles.

And then, once you've gone past the health tests that are mandatory...you get to the ones that aren't. Heart issues, resulting in sudden death, is an increasing problem in Golden Retrievers. But testing is not mandatory (under KC), although good breeders are doing those tests. Poodles are also prone to heart issues (and again, testing is not mandatory I don't think - although I know less about their issues). So, if most of these breeders already aren't testing for the issues they absolutely should be testing for...do you think they're testing for the rarer ones? No. They're not. Why? Because they are lazy and know little to nothing about these breeds.

And then, once you've got past the health issues...you get the personality issues. Dogs should be bred for personality (although this is harder to predict) as well as health. Lots of these designer doodle breeders just seem to pluck any dog off the street at random...and it's just not that easy.

To humanise it a bit...you wouldn't just grab a bloke on a night out, think 'oh he's alright' and decide he's the one you want to have a kid with and get down to business there and then, would you? It's the same for dog breeding. The first potential match for your dog you come across isn't necessarily the right one. When done properly, it can take months - or even years - to find the right matches that are the best examples of their breed and good breeders (both stud owner and bitch owner) will vet each other thoroughly. I took well over a year to find a stud for my last litter because I wanted to be 100% sure that he was the right dog, with the right health tests, with the right lineage for the type of dog I wanted to produce.

I could go on and on, but essentially the RVC has completely de-bunked the idea that mongrels are healthier (for the reasons set out above). 😊

Here's an example of the average Goldendoodle breeder: http://www.skenasdoodles.co.uk/puppies-1.html

Two litters planned in the same month. No health tests for the parents (although they claim they are - but if they actually were, or these results were any good, they would tell you upfront. As the KC makes pedigree breeders).

Nonsense (and widely debunked) claims about how their dogs are healthier - with no actual proof of that at all.

Oh, and even better, they want money before you even see the puppies! You pay £250 to 'hold' a puppy before you've even seen one.

Multiple breeding bitches. No older dogs at all (I wonder where the dogs that have outlived their use in breeding go...)

Anyone who buys a dog from these breeders isn't an animal lover, in my opinion.

Which breeds are on your list of 'possibles' already, OP, and are there any breeds on a definite 'no' list? E.g. I wouldn't have a spaniel, personally, and other people would give the breeds of my dogs a wide berth.

Also, contrary to belief, not all dogs of working breeds are full of boundless energy. I have two (a Border Collie and a Huntaway), who are as placid as anything at home (unless you happen to have a ball or a treat on your person). They are both very loving and loyal, friendly, eager to please, and happy to be at home or out and about. Mine do have a 'work mode', because they're trained to be working dogs, but I've known others of both breeds that would rather hide than see a sheep or a cow!

Genuinely curious, why would you get a cross?

Miniature schnauzers are lovely dogs, spaniels are lovely dogs. Different profiles though and you'd know what you were getting.

Basically what @TheHungryHungryLandsharks said in regards to the quality of breeding stock.

The other problem with cross breeding is that often dogs are not health tested but conditions such as hip dysplasia can be prevalent in both breeds that are crossed. Or the sire has hip scores but the dam hasn't, so the likelihood of your puppy being affected just increased by over 50% especially if the sire has an average or poor score.

There is also no breed register / pedigree for the dogs so if you look at 2nd 3rd or 4th generation of something poo you have no idea about the level of inbreeding.

I agree that a reduced gene pool in pedigree dogs and high levels of inbreeding to get THAT dog is the main reason why genetic mutations exist. Plus the overuse of specific stud dogs, which again leads to higher levels of inbreeding. But good breeders will acknowledge this and breed with unaffected/ clear dogs. Looking at pedigrees and health testing is key. Breeders who breed with dogs that haven't done the required testing or are unaware of their dogs pedigrees don't care about their puppies or customers.

I’ve got a lab and a 1 yr grandson, the dog is amazing with my grandson, very gentle and patient.

I did A LOT of breed research and was almost set on a miniature or standard poodle (debating the pros and cons of each) when I saw an old post on here that mentioned smooth collies which I googled and I loved the look and also characteristics of them.

I had a simple list of things we wanted-
-Usually good with kids
-Minimal grooming.
-Around one to 1.5 hours of exercise per day.
-Medium to large size
-Short haired.

We were really lucky that one of the first breeders I messaged invited us along to a local breed show so we got to meet lots of smooth collies (and roughs too). We left that show feeling like they were the right dog for us but, as they are vulnerable native breed there are not as many breeders so we knew we would be in for a bit of a wait. However the benefit of this is that the breeders who are around are all very passionate about the health and future of the breed. Also, no puppy farmers as the demand isn’t there.

We made the right choice, our boy is 5.5 months now and we love him so much. He’s a ‘people’ dog. My younger 2 children are 10 and 6 years. My youngest was a bit nervous around dogs before we got our puppy but they loved each other so much and she’s not nervous around other dogs we meet now which was unexpected!

I do sometimes look smaller breeds walking nicely with their owners and one day, if it would be easier to have a small old dog but I’d not change him for the world. We’ve been really lucky 🍀

How much time and money do you have, check insurance, how far do you want to walk every day and how often, how much grooming do you want to be doing and paying for.
Remember all puppies will bite and bite bloody hard for a long time, at least it feels a long time. They’ll draw blood, bruise you and it hurts like bloody hell. How much training do you want to do. Do you want to put up with ‘seasons’ a female will need at least one if not two. Think of your lifestyle and then choose a dog that best matches it.

I have a 9 yr old DD and we opted for a staffie. She’s 10 months now and a lovely little dog, cuddly and affectionate, happy to walk, or happy to lounge all day if it’s raining. Her brothers are more of a handful though- stubborn, and do not like cuddles.

Before our staff I had a Labrador, he was a beautiful boy. He was around six when DD was born, very gentle. As a puppy he was very boisterous, bonkers! He required a ton of grooming, exercise and tore his cruciate age 6 - £7.5k for the op and £300/400 pcm for the rest of his life (lived to age 14). I was fortunate I could afford it, although he was insured it was only £4K per condition which I thought was plenty as I didn’t realise vets bills had gone up so much.

Research your breeder very carefully or look at rescues.

Because a proper breeder won’t allow their stud dog to go to a different breed to make a cross, nor will they lift their endorsement on any puppy they sell for the new owner to do the same. So crosses are generally hobby breeders who breed from their pets.

I've had many breeds ranging from Pugs to Newfoundlands. I'm currently training a young WORKING Labrador at the moment - WORKING being the challenge of then Century, but I knew what I was committing to. She's fantastic-an utter joy-incredibly clever- but for WAY too excitable for most people, as are most working lines and Cockers are probably the worst. If I were you, I'd go for the Golden Retriever and just buy two hoovers (upstairs and downstairs has always been my set up) then get an outdoor hot tap installed with a shampoo type shower connector on the hosepipe (all in for around £100). A border terrier is also a good shout-but obviously less of a shedder. Good luck 🤞

Wheaten terrier?

I don’t know if you would go for a cross breed but we have a Cavapoo and she is amazing with our kids, so affectionate but really active too. She’s brilliant.

Labs aren't always really big. Mine are 18.5kg (show/working) and 21kg (working).

Norfolk and Norwich terriers are gorgeous.

Genetic testing has been a thing for long enough now that if breeders actually cared and were ethically then issues like hip dysplasia would no longer be a thing, yet it is. Also, it doesn't explain the existance of brachiocephalic breeds, there is nothing positive to be said about the breeders of these dogs, KC registered or otherwise.

As i said previously, I'll never own a pedigree after my childhood dog. Show cocker from a reputable breeder and KC registered. He had hip dysplasia, ear problems, eye problems and stomach problems, and Spaniels aren't the worst of them, brachiocephelic breeding is just cruelty, plain and simple.

My parents next dog was a proper mix (springer jack x with everything and anything mutt) and never had any health issues living to 15, my current dog Beddy x cocker (not from pedigree parents, so in reality he is more of a beddy whippet of some percentage x cocker/ sprocker), he's not had health issues either and is 9 now. So i'll stick with my way.

I have Cardigan corgis (the queen had Pembrokes different breed). The first one arrived when the DG were 6 and 7, they are now late 20’s and still talk about him, we’d had gun dogs before but our circumstances changed. They are a rare breed I believe less than 100 born every year, most people haven’t a clue what they are They are big dog personalities in smaller bodies, they are happy go lucky very loyal to their families, happy to walk or not; Thursday was a bit chaotic and the weather was shit so they didn’t get walked at all only in the garden but they don’t care tomorrow they’ll happily do 3 hours over a variety of terrain although they’d struggle to climb a steep mountain or scramble over huge rocks, they are food motivated but not obsessed, so easy to train no issues with recall etc, all underpinned by a sense of humour. They are fairly aloof with strangers which is good no running up to kids in the park, and mine are aloof with unknown dogs. They are not clingy or needy but also not aloof with their family mine are next to me on the sofa but not on me. They don’t suffer from separation anxiety least none of mine have. They are not popular with puppy farmers so are generally bred by the sort of breed dedicated breeders that @TheHungryHungryLandsharks describes.
Downside that shed like nothing on this earth, (they have a double coat) I’m amazed mine aren’t bald the amount of hair they shed ALL the times and then twice a year ……. so they are not for the house proud. Someone on here used to own GSD she said their shedding was nothing like a corgi. They are low slung so get muddy and bring mud into the house on the furniture etc. Some bark badly (mine don’t), they are herding dogs so will chase livestock, one of mine actively looks for sheep will go under a gate looking for sheep 5 fields away, so Im constantly on the look out for sheep we have a lot where I live, they can also get back trouble so keeping their weight down is essential.
Personally I think they are gorgeous and most people who meet them say the same they have great charisma.

Nice article about them here. Sadly I think the numbers being bred has dropped since it was written.

Any terrier would fit the bill, big dog energy in a small package.

They need socialising, training and exercise but that’s true of all dogs.

Our first dog after DH and I moved in together was a Patterdale/Lakeland x, who was a real character and so much fun, but Patterdales often struggle with young children and other dogs, as apparently do Westies. Minnie could only cope with male dogs, she would scrap with other girls! Hence why we ended up with a house full of boys. We've since had a Border/JRT x, who was a lovely temperament and very snuggly. He's sadly left us recently, but we have still got our other two rescues, one collie cross and one Australian shepherd cross. Both need a lot of exercise. We live rurally so fine for us, but working breeds can get frustrated if they are under exercised and understimulated.

Our neighbour breeds English cocker spaniels, they always seem like lovely dogs.

Agree with this, my Lab is on the larger side - 24kgs at 8 months.

He is a working line but even as a small puppy was (and still is) fairly chilled in the house. He hasn’t destroyed anything, save for the odd birthday card or tea towel. When we went to pick him out from his litter, he was the calmest one there so not sure if that’s just his personality! He and my son ‘picked’ each other. While I was getting attacked and bitten to death by the other males in the litter, my son (who is a calm kid) stepped out of the action, mildly perturbed by all the chaos until he spotted the one male who was just stood there calmly taking it all in and they made a bee line for each other 🥰

Sorry, totally off topic but I was thinking about this this morning all misty eyed 😂

Untrue. In some breeds - like my giant one - hip and elbow dysplasia is no longer the problem that it was 20 or 30 years ago, simply by virtue of caring, ethical breeders who are carrying out genetic testing.
Sadly the same cannot be said for every breed. However, it is not true to say that mongrels come without problems and that only purebred dogs have genetic defects.